Yume Koi Has Been Hit With Khv

[Nancy M.]

This is from Mike's website, it was just posted this morning.
I sure hope that Mike can recover from this, and that all of his customers support him 100%, he has been very honorable and up front with this whole situation.

KHV Update
4th August 2006



As of this morning, I have had contact from Mr Lymn\'s daughter, who has said that all is well, and the Koi have been up to 26c.

CEFAS called me back today, and confirmed that we have had at our place is now 100% confirmed KHV. After explaining that these Koi were down at 17c at the Show (probably lower in reaity), they said that since water temps have been up between 23c and 28c in customers ponds since the Show, it is very unlikely that any customers are at risk at all, as the virus ould have kicked off before now, if any Koi had been exposed to it at the Show, or if a carrier were unknowingly sold at the Show.


This one was from earlier this morning:

KHV update
4th August 2006



Today, I had contact with Richard Ellis, Mark Kaye, and Elaine Phillips. Mark was on holiday, so I don\'t know the status of his Koi as yet, but Richard and Elaine\'s Koi are fine so far.

CEFAS are having problems with KHV testing purely because a mad rush these past few weeks has depleted their stock of KHV virus for anti-body testing, and are waiting for more to be made up in-house. So, they are unable to test the rest of our Koi for at least the next week. However, we should have results back on other dealers Koi next week.

Last night, (3rd August), I had contact from a good friend in America, namely Carl Forss of Keirin Koi. As chance would have it, he was Vicky Vaughan of Georgia University at that moment... probably the USA\'s most knowledgeable on KHV. She told us that it is possible to test all of our infected Koi here, to determine which actual Koi was the original one that triggered the virus (assuming that it was triggered by a carrier we had here, and assuming it is still alive, which I would think it probably is).

I tried to contact Paula Reynolds twice today, but couldn\'t get through. Later this afternoon I got a call from another dealer, who during conversation said that he believed Paula could also test and estimate when a Koi was first exposed to KHV. I am hoping that if this is the case, I can short-cut things a little by testing the Koi in the affected ponds first of all. This will be extremely helpful in determining exactly which other Koi we have, or have had, that are of any obvious risk. We will then be able to get out and test any \'high risk\' Koi in customers ponds, if such a Koi exists. If we conclude that no \'high-risk\' Koi are out there, we will blood sample every Koi in our healthy ponds as per the original plan to establish if there are any carrier Koi in their, and also to help determine if any customers already have anything \'high-risk\'

In respect of any customers Koi that still reside here... once testing is completed, and we have an \'expert\' opinion that the Koi are 100% KHV safe, you will then be able to collect your Koi. But, we promise that there is absolutely no way whatsoever that we will let any Koi leave here until every Koi is deemed 100% safe from KHV.

We still don\'t have 100% confirmation from CEFAS that this is in fact KHV. But, the chance of it not being KHV is extremely unlikely.

Lastly... we have been inundated with emails from clients, and Koi hobbiests, and dealers from all over the World offering very kind thoughts, and many offers of help. We are also aware of great support on all of the Koi forums. Please don\'t think that these have gone un-noticed. We greatly appreciate all of this support, which is a great inspiration. We sincerely hope that we won\'t disappoint in bringing this terrible problem to a 100% satisfactory outcome.

Many thanks,

Mike.

Here is the link: http://www.yumekoi.com/index.php

[Regenmeneer]

Here's a further update from Mike Sandens site:

KHV Update
4th August 2006



As of this morning, I have had contact from Mr Lymn\'s daughter, who has said that all is well, and the Koi have been up to 26c.

CEFAS called me back today, and confirmed that we have had at our place is now 100% confirmed KHV. After explaining that these Koi were down at 17c at the Show (probably lower in reaity), they said that since water temps have been up between 23c and 28c in customers ponds since the Show, it is very unlikely that any customers are at risk at all, as the virus ould have kicked off before now, if any Koi had been exposed to it at the Show, or if a carrier were unknowingly sold at the Show

[Nancy M.]

I am curious, did Mike put these koi through the heat cycle process when he received them? If so, this could knock the heat cycle theory right out the door. Mike is a very reputable dealer, and a big Momotaro customer, with all that happened to Momo, I am sure that Mike took all precautions on any and all shipments from all the breeders stock he carries. . Heat cycling has always scared me, not knowing if it could survive the cycle and at a later date brake. That is why we personally have all fish we purchase tested for the KHV virus

[Regenmeneer]

Nancy, he might well have heat cycled the koi.

But what if koi were not infected with KHV to begin with, and later on be infected? I think heat cycling uninfected koi will not protect them in the future.

[aquitori]

Some bad news for Mike....Prays go out to him.

[johnsmith]

I think people might be a little confused about the heat cycle.

FIRST there is the cycle of the virus. Like all herps ( latin for 'hidden' snake) the virus hides dormant in the cell. When activated - by heat, the virus begins replicating and spreading throughout the surrounding cells. This is why the kidney, collector of all 'things' in circulation is the first organ to become overwhelmed with virus particles. This is all brought about by higher, ideal temperatures for the virus.

The SECOND conversation about heat and warm water is based on early Israeli research and experimentation. To digree for a moment, one of the oldest 'vaccine techniques' in the world is to expose an animal to a disease ( some bacteria or virus) and allow the immune system a 'taste' of the disease without enough to cause the disease itself. The trigger can be a 'piece' of virus or a dead sample of the virus.
In the case of the Israeli experiments, koi were exposed to the virus at different temperatures ( remember the life cycle of the virus and temperature) so that the immune system could 'taste' the virus but a disease would not occur. This is tricky, but if done right, a large percentage of the exposed fish will become immune- or at least not die. The question still remains as to how many of the survivors of the exposure are now truly immune and free of the disease and how many are alive but carriers.

The THIRD conversation is about stopping death in fish that are ALREADY diseased. This may sound like the same thing as the second conversation, but it is not. In the second conversation, very controlled temperatures are used to keep the fish from actually becoming fully infected. In this THIRD conversation, the fish are already deeply infected and the heat is used to cause the virus to retreat back into the dormant stage within the cells.

It is a known fact that koi can only get KHV twice. If they are survivors of this disease two times or are subjected to high heat while infected, some will recover and be immune and some will recover and be carriers.

So when you talk about 'heat' and KHV try and be clear about the context your comments apply to. Otherwise you will confuse the reader and possibly your own thinking and conclusions you draw.
Hope this was helpful. JR

[luke frisbee]

Jr,
the last bit?

"Some will be immune, and some will be carriers"
Can you explain the difference(s)?

[MJShaffer]

Another question about the high heat factor in "stopping" the virus. Would it be possible to unwittingly create carriers or immune koi after a summer like we're all having, where pond temps are approaching 90 across the country? This is something that has concerned me over the past few summers... could someone have a short window of temps in the 70s and lose a few fish to "spring startup" and quickly be into the temps where the virus would go dormant without realizing what is going on, or is there too great a mortality rate? Thanks! MJ

[johnsmith]

any fish that is exposed to the disease is a survivor. But do all fish actually get the disease- are some naturally immune?

In the case of heat- both are survivors but one is now immune and a non carrier and the other is immune but a carrier - habors live virus in its cells that will activate.
The interesting thing here is - do survivors who appear immune and are considerd non carriers, reach this state thanks to an immune system that surpresses the virus? And if this fish is then stressed, does the non carrier then become a carrier? ( this makes me think of Momotaro's stock or anyone's who now test disease free and appear to be safe based on some exposure to naive fish).

[luke frisbee]

Gotcha.... Thanks