Trading eggs? and about KHV?

[Zei Kohaku]

I would like to buy some good kois, (who doesn’t!) the problem is that in Portugal is impossible to obtain them.
I tried to buy some by Net, but the general answer till now is something like that:
“I don't send koi that distance via mail order - but that does not mean that nobody would do this.”

So I had the idea, that it was simpler to buy a good spawning rope full of high quality eggs. Is that possible to trade life eggs?

Can eggs have KHV?

I read some articles and no one speaks about eggs. There is good article from University of Florida that speaks about KHV but doesn’t speak about eggs. If you want to read here is the link http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/VM113

Best regards
Zei Kohaku


Best regards
Kohaku

[johnsmith]

THAT is a very interesting question?! We know that SVC can be transmitted to the embryo right within the egg. I don't think any one knows if KHV can? There is a strong possibility of a carrier status from an entire spawn's worth of eggs I would suspect? the disease individuals dying and a percentage gaining natural immunity and a percentage surviving the disease and becoming carriers. Just MHO of course. JR

[koiczar]

This question carries some serious implications if found to be true!!

[RayJordan]

I have seen some other speculation that KHV can likely be passed from a female koi to her eggs.

[Bern]

I spent a day at a South African koi farm that washes all eggs in an iodine solution before taking them to the hatchery over a mile and a half away.

They insist that the eggs are KHV free but KHV has been found on tissue attached to the egg membranes hence the iodine wash.

The South African breeders are paranoid about KHV having had two major outbreaks in recent years. This farm experienced them and eradicated all their old stock and began anew. However, they treat every fish as suspect hence this procedure with their eggs. Part of their protocol consists of heat treatment as well as routine testing on tosai. So far no tosai raised in this fashion has proved positive.

They mentioned that KHV is a horizontal virus, a term I hadn't heard before.
One of your men, Bob Brudd was with me on that trip and he got the guided tour and info too.

They adopted this method after seeing the results of removing calves from Bovine TB infected Cape Buffalo immediately after birth and before they suckled and raising them TB free. This koi farm resides in the middle of a Game Farm that carries out this practise on the Buffalo. Bovine TB is a horizontal virus too.

rgds Bern

[bekko]

Bern, "vertical transmission" is from parent to offspring via the gametes. Horizontal transmission is from one fish to another. Some viruses transmit both ways, others only one way. Like you say, even if a virus is not truly vertically transmitted within the egg, it may be carried along as an external contaminant.

The fact that we do not know for sure if KHV is vertically transmitted is indicitative of just how crude our understanding of the virus is at this point in time.

Zei, shipping eggs is tricky because they have to arrive at their destination before they start to hatch. The window of opportunity is short. If they hatch in the shipping bag, the water will be so fouled that few will survive. Some think that the temperature fluctuations and poor water quality in shipping also appears to increase the number of deformities - although this is still poorly understood. Finally, very few of the offspring will be high quality koi, even if they are from the best of parents. You may have to raise several thousand to find a few good ones. Are you ready for that? You would save time and money by flying over to England and bringing some nice ones back as luggage - if you can wade through the paperwork.

-steveh op

[dick benbow]

Great Thread..appreciate your contributions JR, Bern, Steve....amazing what one has to learn to keep up with their passion......

regarding eggs, you'd have to overnight them as in most cases you have a 3 day window...I have known folks to have done this but unless your schooled in raising and culling the babies, chances are not favorable to be able to get anything of value....

I think the easiest to cull is kohaku.....The trick is to have lots of room from the time of hatching and lots of live food for the first month. This year we only spawned shiro, have kept minimal numbers and have had lots of live daphne for them. The show this weekend has about 6 of our shiros fron the last two years. Will be interesting to see how they do. One GR I gave as a gift to a friend at 3 inches came back as a 2 year old at 18 inches and is incredible! Fault? has red eye sears(sp?) cause dad has some showa in his background.

This part of the hobby has been a great deal of fun for me as before I kept the same koi and worked to improve them...changes were minimal. Now I get to watch the tremendous changes they go thru from nose hair to tosai. the last coupla years that has been my greatest joy......

What a shame out hobby has to exist with the uncertainty of KHV.....

[Zei Kohaku]

Bekko wrotes: “You would save time and money by flying over to England and bringing some nice ones back as luggage - if you can wade through the paperwork.”

Yes, you said the magic word “paperwork” I don’t know what kind of paper work I had to deal with. I’ll try to know, but it seems difficult. About going to England. The problem is, where to? Who are the right dealers? When is the best moment? Is a koi show the write place to go? And where and when is the best koi show? And the dealers will ship kois to Portugal?

Bekko wrotes: “very few of the offspring will be high quality koi, even if they are from the best of parents. You may have to raise several thousand to find a few good ones. Are you ready for that?”

Yes, I’m ready to several hundreds and culling them. As always I will do same mistakes but I will learn with that.

Dick Benbow wrotes: “The trick is to have lots of room from the time of hatching and lots of live food for the first month.”

My experience till now is with my kois. I have a small spawning rope with 50 cm and I put the rope in pond till is full of eggs. Than I take the rope off and I lay it on an aquarium 80 x 40 x 40 cm that is full of green water. They stay here for one week. In this aquarium I put a liter of water with infusorians (I think that’s the name in English, that I made with water and lettuce exposed to the sun for some days). Then I take the offsprings and put them in another aquarium with 120 x 40 x 40 cm where I feed them with food made by myself. The recipe is more or less equal parts of:

Cow beef heart (I prefer heart) or liver - cleaned & defatted & trimmed
raw shrimp - peeled
Spinaches – Boiled for a few seconds.
Frozen red mosquito larvae
Frozen Salt water Arthemia (Brine shrimp)

Run all ingredients with a food processor. When everything is very well processed like a soap, mix well in a large bowl with two drops of olive oil and frozen. Then take small cubes and give them three times a day. When they grow bigger I send them to a small pond for the first months. Then they go to the big lake.

Best regards
Kohaku