Spirulina

[Birdman]

I have been feeding the OSI 168 this summer along with two other feeds. I have been very happy with both groth and color in my fish. So at least I can say the OSI hasn't hurt them.

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Regenmeneer This surprises me somewhat! How about growth that is being limited by feeding spirulina? Or the damage to pigment cells in small koi (tosai) ?

I have 2 Maruyama tosai in my pond since tosai season started. Have notice the tosai have the Murata body style...kinda dissappointed, but what can you do. I would have preferred one of more Sensuke body style....

Spirulina is good to a certain point I think, in nature koi have the various elements to maintain their color.

[MikeM]

Several points:

1. When I post about an article I've read it is usually because it says something I've not read before. It does not mean the article is necessarily correct.

2. I know from reading old BKKS publications that Alan Rogers was always pretty good in the accuracy of his reports, which is not the same as saying he was always right or that new things weren't ever learned. His phraseology in the above quote indicates a bit of gloating that his 10 year practice of using spirulina was getting some support from the research. I think that makes his report less unbiased that it might otherwise be.

3. I tend to trust the research results that come out of the Inland Fisheries institute because it is geared to helping fish farmers be more successful, but I also recognize that the bulk of the research is on food fish. That means there can be biases in the description of results. Here, the focus on skin and sheen is very unlike a food fish researcher, so it gets my attention.

4. I emphasized that the research was with food using a low percentage of spirulina, because I did not want anyone to get the idea of using the 100% spirulina foods available in bulk from feed outlets, AES, etc.

5. All of that said, it makes sense that algae-based food ingredients will be more suitable to koi than many other plant-based foods simply because the protein chains in aquatic organisms tend to be shorter/less complex than land-based organisms.

6. The real importance of the research to me, however, is simply to offset a fear of spirulina as a food ingredient based on the usual commentary that spirulina causes the whites to become pink. A 2% food content is really rather low. I'll not be starting to use color enhancement pellets as a main diet! But, I may add pellets with spirulina as an ingredient to the mix of pellets I now use. Avoiding spirulina is tough...it is in many commercial pellets not marketed as enhancing color. If you check the ingredients, you may find you have been feeding some spirulina without realizing it.

[aquitori]

Steve, in the end water quality still is 80% of improving or maintaining your koi. What mix of food that works for most might not work for you. I will bring up this topic at the next ZNA meeting. I am sure we can discuss this a bit more further.

[Joansmithe]

Good morning Mike, I wanted to make it clear that my remarks were not directed towards you or your original post. I made the comments about staining of skin to counter Alan's strong statements only. I am grateful that you posted this information for our discussion as this 'good algae/bad algae' conversation has haunted the hobby for decades. And if you knew Alan Like I knew Alan, he did like to mix things up a bit! Its a shame he left the hobby before the Internet got rolling or he would be in with the best of us slugging it out!
Its pretty hard to avoid spirulina with prepared pellets- its in everything. I consider it only 'white background noise'. Not evil and not a miracle additive. After all, its stability is questionable in pellets anyway due to high oxidation potential. What is bad is adding it the way a breeder does to his tateshita for intensifying color for marketing reasons- that is a short term gimmick and NOT a 'life style'. Beyond that, good koi just don't need the extra help, is all I'm saying. Too much will stain the skin depending on koi's age, sex, time of year and duration of the routine.
Best, JR

[Chris Neaves]

Hi to everyone,
Spirulina -
There are many things that can enhance the colour in koi, red peppers being one.
A good quality Spirulina is very expensive as an additive so it is not often used. At an inclusion rate of say 5% it will increase the factory price per ton by about 30%.

Why do we really want to enhance the colours? This to me is short term. It is one reason why high levels of things like spirulina do affect the whites on our koi - when fed at higher levels.

But what about feeding say 0.5 - 1% spirulina? Very low therefore, it can be fed at each meal i.e. as a staple food. Koi have access to algae (vitamin A) and a host of microorganism that contain carotenes.

These are ingested in small amounts - continuously over a period of time. So why not replicate this.

Another fact we need to consider. There are many collections where koi keepers do not feed colour enhancers but have wonderful colour.

There are koi collections were very expensive koi foods containing spirulina and other colour enhancers are fed yet some of the koi loose colour!

Regards,
Chris

[Steve Nguyen]

Tony

probably good ideas to offer a few formulas on mixing of different foods that yield good results or just recommend a few good brands. that way, members can pick and choose whichever s/he prefers. in past 3 yrs, I fed my fish with whatever foods I found. I have no particular demand for koi foods. my fish grow bigger and they look better. that's all it matters.

Steve

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori Steve, in the end water quality still is 80% of improving or maintaining your koi. What mix of food that works for most might not work for you. I will bring up this topic at the next ZNA meeting. I am sure we can discuss this a bit more further.

[MikeM]

JR: No problem. I did not take it as directed at me. (And even if I had, your comments are valid!) Your post did get me to post the "points" above, because it made me remember that there are a lot of non-posting guests visiting the board who might take things too literally. I think K-B regulars are adjusted to my habit of posting tidbits from articles and understand that the fact I post an excerpt does not necesssarily mean it is valid or that I agree with it. If all the posts are taken into consideration, I think a person gets a balanced understanding.

[Steve Nguyen]

I thought one should not use pellets in opened bag that's old than 3 months. some kind of oxidation issue??

I talk to this guy and he has been feeding his fish with aqua master for past 3 yrs. he said it's going well so far. he doesn't see anything wrong with his fish.

Steve

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar Steve Tried their Wheat Germ last October when I couldn't get Hai Feng. Turned the fishes waste black. Got Hai Feng ASAP and it returned to normal immediately. Wouldn't use AquaMaster again. Still have most of the bag - you want it - it's yours!!