new pump and its causing filter overflow

[koiczar]

Steve

IMO, in THIS CASE the PUMP IS OVERSIZED! The reason is that if you simply add a T and divert the remaining water the filter can't handle, you're going to create too much current. Based in 5000 gal/hour and the fact that the Cyprio can only handle 1600 MAX, THAT LEAVES 3400 GPH MINIMUM that the bypass would send directly back to the pond. In a pond the size of this, that's way too much current to have on a CONTINUAL basis.

[Rich L]

Sorry you didn't know some about hydraulics. The only comfort I can give you is few hobbyists understand it well enough to design a system where all the components are value added.

Do what you can to get your money back or at least some of it. Get a pump that fits your pond. If your head is too low for Sequence and PerformancePro, a LIM pumpwill do. Probably a 3600 GPH pump will fit. Don't expect 3600GPH. If you have enough head, the pump will operate at around 3K or a little below.

That pump will pay for itself in short order, when compared to the cost of your present pump. something like $25.00/m as compared to 50.00/m

[junglegeorge12]

Sounds like you need a shower. The Bakki makers recommend turning over your pond 2-3 times per hour, so it looks like you are spot on for a shower system. Since a shower can be suspended over your pond or set outside it, it should be easily worked in somehow. What are your pond dimsensions?

[Clay]

I agree that the pump is too large for the filter, but also agree that it is hard to oversize a pump for a pond. Turnover rates in a river, even what appear to be a slow river, take place in a matter of seconds not in hours. I personally run a 1/4 hp Sequence on a 1000 gallon holding tank.

One more point to consider instead of buying two ball valves a single three way Jandy valve might be more appropriate for your application. You can get these several places but here is one link: http://pondmart-pond-supplies.stores...wayvalves.html

Until you decide on what new filter that you are interested in, you could run the max through your present filter and pipe the rest to a TPR which would direct water and waste to drain. These are called TPRs or Tangential Pond Returns. These typically move water to a bottom drain which helps remove solids from the pond.

If you are changing your filtration around some I would also suggest you put in some type of retro bottom drain. Either an Aqua Art Wizard or a Tetra retro like this: http://www.aquaart.com/drain.html Again, there are many places to get these from this page just shows both.

Good luck in your pond filtration upgrade. Last word - keep the pump and upgrade the filter either sooner or later.

Rick

[Rich L]

That pump flow has no practical use on that pond. AT ALL!

MORE TURNOVER IS VALUABLE, TO A POINT.

Ammonia being the most useful standard to set, a good filter with a one hour turnover in a reasonably stocked pond will have a residual ammonia reading of 0.1 or less. It can be improved slightly too about 0.05 by doubling the turnover, but there's no added value in koi habitat. Those levels of ammonia have no impact on a koi's ability to expel nitrogen waste. (If a filter is able to remove 100% of the ammonia, there will still be the ammonia presently being excreted by the koi. That is termed the residual ammonia level of the system.).

It's far better to leave that pump in a closet and buy a new one. It's obvious she can't afford the large sum of wasted money powering a big pump and attempts to play with 'other uses' and water diversions is simply useless
waste.

Remember Steve Childers’ comment on components fitting in a system? When all the components are properly matched to achieve a goal it’s called synergy. Another term is value added design. Nothing is added ‘just because it might be nice.’ A component is added when it meets the demand established when it fits with the systems task for it. Nothing else is even allowed.

The strings guidance is so far out as to be damaging.

The thought of using it now because she might be improving on the filter some day isn't considering that the energy wasted now will more than pay to actually ditch the wasteful pump and buy a new pump if she really needs it in the future.

[koiczar]

Rich

As much as I hate to say it, FOR ONCE WE AGREE!! Good post.

[junglegeorge12]

[quote=Rich L;59289]That pump flow has no practical use on that pond. AT ALL!

MORE TURNOVER IS VALUABLE, TO A POINT.



It's far better to leave that pump in a closet and buy a new one. It's obvious she can't afford the large sum of wasted money powering a big pump and attempts to play with 'other uses' and water diversions is simply useless
waste.
quote]
Hate to bust the bubble Rich but that is completely wrong. Turnover adds oxygenation, which is proven to boost immune systems, overall health, and growth rates. As well the added circulation will keep waste from settling and will also make the koi stronger due to swimming more, improving their shape and conformation and reducing risk of obesity.
Every major breeder who has mentioned the subject publicly is in agreement, the more turnover you can afford the better.
I am also not sure how you concluded 'she obviously cannot afford' to run the pump? I agree with Clay. Unless she really cannot afford to run the pump, the waste would be to toss it and get another. I would say this is a good oppurtunity to improve/increase your filtration system.

You got a good strong pump, might as well use it and let it perform it's job of making a healthier pond for your koi, unless the energy costs are overwhelming for you. Some folks want everybody else to operate 'efficiently' so they can operate wastefully and not feel guilty. You could make a nice waterfall with that amount of flow. If you want efficiency make your own wet end.

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by junglegeorge12 Every major breeder who has mentioned the subject publicly is in agreement, the more turnover you can afford the better.

That is absolute, total and complete crap. You've neither the education nor the experience to make ridiculous blanket statements like this covering every major breeder, every pond and every pump in the world. Good grief -- get a grip!

Like others have said, pumps need to be sized to the overall system and the system needs to be sized to the pond. More is not better. Beyond the point of diminishing return there lies danger -- not just increased electrical costs. And your advice is just that: Dangerous.

Here we're talking 5-6 k gpm in a sub 2 k pond; that's a turnover of approx 3x per hour. What do you want to do: Convert her pond into a jacuzzi?

[junglegeorge12]

Hogwash Don, I have both the experience and the education to assert that fully and confidently. Truth is you are an ass who does this on just about every thread. A simple lookup of your posts reveals your nature and character.

3x an hour is not that much. And yes, most of the breeders who have mentioned the issue publicly have stated just that. So sad you cannot put aside your personal feelings, hostility, and agendas long enough to be honest.

[Clay]

I usually try not to even respond to threads that get so emotionally charged. Guys, lets take the personality conflicts and the personal attacks out of this thread and discuss the issue of pond turnover rates.

Again I run a Sequence 1000 model 6000 pump that is rated at 6000 GPH at 0 head. My system and the majority of application have head pressure within the system and the pump that we are discussing won't do anywhere near 6000 gph. I run this pump through a 30" bead filter on a small 1000 gallon tank. This fish enjoy the currents and their development is excellent is body shape for a small tank. Enclosed is performance curve for the pump that the original poster bought for your consideration.

I am in agreement about matching components in a system and the pond working as a system. I also believe as I originally posted that the pump can run her current filter and then run a couple of TPRs to push waste toward drain.

Let me leave you with this question to consider. What are the turnover rates in the Momotaro indoor facility? Mostly we don't do large turnover rates because of costs. The Seq 6000 self primer pulls 367 watts max.

Can she run a smaller pump yes, will the extra flow kill the fish or harm them no, will the extra flow benefit the koi, I believe yes.

Rick