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Old 08-09-2006   #21 (permalink)
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Thanks for the help. The bottle of supaverm was brand new..so no storage issues. I wont be using it again!!! So far, I think they will recover. Just worried about the two that got the nuflor...they are the only ones not eating. Last year was the first time I ever had an infection problem, and also the first year I didn't salt. I salt regularly, but not always to .3%. Some times its lower than that...maybe .15%. Even though i quarantine..I still feel some salt is protective. Idon't think i will do it regularly any more. Maybe just in spring and again in august for a week(my unlucky month!!!). It stinks...for 5 years..never a health issue...now, nothing but stupid infections!!! Thank goodness no KHV!!! Last year was flukes and columnaris...just as devastating for me!! Maybe I should take up basket weaving or something..lol!!!
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Old 08-09-2006   #22 (permalink)
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Brutus....you omitted some info..??

Brutus,

Unless I have missed it on this thread, at no time did you indicate what your Supaverm dosage was?????? You gave the salt dosage, but no indication of the amount of Supaverm that you added. How many mls./gal. did you dose?

Bob

Last edited by BobinCA; 08-09-2006 at 09:49 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-09-2006   #23 (permalink)
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I don't know that specifically. I added it as directed. Number of Ml's per 1,000gallons. I ordered enough for 15,000gallons....and added enough for my 7,000 gallon pond. I mixed and measured very carefully.
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Old 08-09-2006   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuscz View Post
Thanks for the help. The bottle of supaverm was brand new..so no storage issues. I wont be using it again!!! So far, I think they will recover. Just worried about the two that got the nuflor...they are the only ones not eating. Last year was the first time I ever had an infection problem, and also the first year I didn't salt. I salt regularly, but not always to .3%. Some times its lower than that...maybe .15%. Even though i quarantine..I still feel some salt is protective. Idon't think i will do it regularly any more. Maybe just in spring and again in august for a week(my unlucky month!!!). It stinks...for 5 years..never a health issue...now, nothing but stupid infections!!! Thank goodness no KHV!!! Last year was flukes and columnaris...just as devastating for me!! Maybe I should take up basket weaving or something..lol!!!
Brutuscz

You mention that YOU had no storage issues. What has been posted on this thread concerns what the dealers do, not you or I. When a dealer gets his shipment, it is usually in large quantity. If they know what they're doing (which some don't) they must mix/re-mix it very thoroughly to make sure all ingredients are balanced within the mix BEFORE they re-bottle it in smaller quantities to sell at retail. There was a thread a few months ago that became a very heated discussion concerning the efficacy of Supraverm vs Prazi Pond. This subject was discussed there also. There seems to be only a few known sources that REALLY care about making sure the dosages, when re-bottled, aren't dilute or over dosed. Sounds like you may have gotten a bottle that was from the bottom of the shipped container that hadn't been re-mixed properly and ended up overdosing your fish without you even knowing it! That's the problem with Supraverm. I tried it once and will NEVER use it again. The effectiveness and safeness of PraziPond is just what I was looking for and have had success the last 3 years in a row in seriously REDUCING the fluke population in my ponds in spring and fall. I use it twice a year, during the above mentioned seasons when the fish are their most vulnerable.

Now, after having said all that, even though I haven't seen your fish and only have read what you have posted about your problem(s), do you think it could have stemmed from a very infectious bacterial infection. Last year and this year again, people are getting SERIOUSLY hit by a bacterial gill infection. I've seen it happen in very clean systems and dirty ones too. All of a sudden, a single fish or a small few, start showing symptoms by isolating themselves, most near the surface, especially near oxygenation sources (waterfalls, airstones, etc). Within a couple of days they're gone. Upon inspection, the gills are totally necrotic on one side or both. Skin feels like sandpaper, some white crusting of the mucus(slimecoat) shows on some but not others. Others will die and show no outward signs of gill problems, but upon autopsy their liver and kidney have become granulated. NO, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE ALL THINKING-THAT'S KHV!!! NO IT'S NOT, IT'S A BACTERIAL INFECTION. I know because I lost 12 fish to it last June. The amazing thing was that with a single injection of Amacacyn I was able to turn 5 more fish around within 2 days. They were back to eating and acting normal. The crusting of the slime coat disappeared and the skin rejuvenated it's slime coat back to normal within a week. I know of 4 more cases of this kind of outbreak this year again. One is currently ongoing in a friends pond. He has lost 3 fish in the last 3 days. They were all his BIGGEST and of course the best of his collection. No new fish purchased within the last 3 months and those were quarantined for 4 weeks first. What the hell causes this??
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Old 08-10-2006   #25 (permalink)
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So far, so good. They are still eating fine and most look very good. I still have the 2 that took the nuflor not looking great. I have one other not eating. I have not lost any...and the skin is recovering. not as red as before. Still some uncomfortable looking flashing. Just keeping up with water changes. Anything I can add to help the skin issue. Does that stress coat stuff do anything?
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Old 08-10-2006   #26 (permalink)
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I am getting a little more optimistic...one of the ones doing poorly was swimming around and came up to eat tonight. It is actually the kujakyu in my avatar. I am gonna be really upset if thing don't work out for this fish!!!
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Old 08-10-2006   #27 (permalink)
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I wouldn't use stress coat personally, the aloe can coat the gills. Don't need that on top of having a superverm backlash like this.

Personally because of the problems we have seen at KV like this, I never try to recomend the superverm, but rather do the Prazi Pond/Prazi Pro. Much safer IMHO. As others have pointed out, if it isn't mixed right, and the product is gl specific, rolled, not shaken as the air can toss the dosage off also when shaken, then it can reek havoc. Very Very touchy! Sometimes it can't be helped and I do caution folks to the problems heavily with it. Not everyone has access to Prazi.

It may be cheaper, but the risk isn't something I'm willing to take personally with it bottom line as it could wind up more expensive then the prazi in the long run.
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Old 08-10-2006   #28 (permalink)
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What gets me so upset is that by reading the 3 articles written by koivet...you would think this stuff is pretty dang safe!!! I can promise you...it's not!!! That information should be updated, considering all the people that have had problems since this was written. Then again...he advocates melafix on that site as well!!! Maybe it's time for him to take a second look at those articles and realize they need some updating....so things like this don't happen to his readers!!! I am also a doctor...and keeping things up to date are paramount!! If I gave someone out of date information...I would be held accountable...correct!?!? Time to get that site a little more on the ball!!!!
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Old 08-10-2006   #29 (permalink)
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Brutus- (Dr. Brutus)

Seems like there may be another, better place to post this, closer to the source. Ever heard of preaching to the choir?

Mickey the windowman
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Old 08-10-2006   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuscz View Post
So far, so good. They are still eating fine and most look very good. I still have the 2 that took the nuflor not looking great. I have one other not eating. I have not lost any...and the skin is recovering. not as red as before. Still some uncomfortable looking flashing. Just keeping up with water changes. Anything I can add to help the skin issue. Does that stress coat stuff do anything?
I use pure aloe straight from the plant topically on the skin (peel aloe leaf, rub pulp gently on koi's skin, avoiding gill openings). It seals like a slime coat while the skin repairs itself and slimes back up. After a few days the koi can look like its skin is sloughing off (it's actually the aloe not the skin), but in a couple more days its all washed away and the skin looks like new. Saved two jumpers this way who had been out of the pond and in the mouths of felines before finding them.

Marie
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