Help!! Supaverm Stinks..and I ain't to happy with koivet!!!

[Brutuscz]

Last year I had a major problem with flukes in my pond. Saw them with a microscope...gill and skin flukes. Recently, I started to see some flashing..and it was getting progressively worse. So...I hit the koivet site. Read all the articles..figured I would squash the flukes before I lost any koi. My pond is 7,000gal. I read all about supaverm...and how they said, and I quote..supaverm is pretty dang safe. It also seemed very cost effective. I ordered from a very reputable, top koi dealer (one we all know and love!!!). Salted to .3 as instructed and mixed the supaverm like a maniac..and added it. I was instructed to do no water changes for 10 days.
The problems!!! First..Doc J says...it is safe for koi-goldfish hybrids...A lot of BS!! My two, 6 year old hybrids...dead!! One in 4 days, the other in 9 days!! Thanks doc...big help!!
Now..my koi look stressed...some with pink skin, some flashing, some head down tail up, some head up, tail down!! I have a few laying on the bottom. Some jumping...Most are eating fine. Only two not eating(they were the first to look bad...each got a shot of nuflor). I did a 50% water change yesterday...So, salt is at .15. I am currently doing another 1,000gal water change tonight (with dechlor!!)
I definitely feel the supaverm did more harm than good...If I knew all this, I would have used prazipro instead. My ammonia is 0, nitrite 0, nitrate10. I just turned my uv back on..and my protein skimmer.
Any advice to help them get through this is appreciated. They just look unhappy!!!

[jnorth]

First of all..please do not bash other sites here. I know you are upset but bashing another site is not going to help.

You are already doing water changes so continue to do small changes and you will get rid of the supaverm.

You had flukes last year. What do you have this year? Did you check with a microscope yet? Koi flash when they are irritated by anything, not just flukes. Check with a scope and see what they have and you can choose the best course of action.

[saratogatan]

you may want to consider using fenbendazole instead of supeverm. dose to 2PPM, you can do water change but need to keep the dose at 2PPM, simply by working out the amount of water got change and add enough FenBen to make it up.

a good place to get fenbendazole is 4fishstuff.com

hope this help

stan

[Brutuscz]

Quote: Originally Posted by jnorth First of all..please do not bash other sites here. I know you are upset but bashing another site is not going to help. You are already doing water changes so continue to do small changes and you will get rid of the supaverm. You had flukes last year. What do you have this year? Did you check with a microscope yet? Koi flash when they are irritated by anything, not just flukes. Check with a scope and see what they have and you can choose the best course of action.

Don't want to bash his site...just some specific information listed there. Specifically where he states the supaverm is safe for hybrid fish...I can promise it is not!! I will scope some fish soon. I have kept a steady salt level of .3% this season. I wasn't too worried about trich or ich because of this. I figured flukes are the most likely culprit. They are still eating extremely well...and I hope that continues. Only the 2 that got injections didn't eat tonight (but that can happen after the oil of cloves, then nuflor). I just want to know what can help the inflamed skin and irritation that is visible. Will an injection of dexamethasone calm that down?

[junglegeorge12]

Lots of clean water and scope them before adding more meds.

[Dan Blatt]

All I can say (from experience) is, if indeed you have problems because of the Supraverm, you will experience some wierd stuff over the next couple months. Certain fish will begin to look as if the were scalded....no slime and rough skin. As they progress and start to appear as if healing is taken place, others will begin to show similar symptoms, and so on until it runs the course.
Out of 15 koi in my main pond, all went through it a year ago, with the exception of two fish. First noticable signs appeared on a doitsu hi utsuri 7-10 days after treatment. The last three, which showed signs somewhere around 6-8 weeks into it, appeared to be recovering as the rest did, but died within a couple days of each other about 2-3 weeks after they first exhibited noticable signs. These three (2 shiro's and a showa) had almost no slime coat and were rough as sand paper, although they did appear normal in the pond itself.
All the fish fed fine during the ordeal, and even acted fairly normal, with a few exceptions when certain individual koi peaked.....looked the worst, prior to recovering. Not fun....hell you can treat for bugs and water quality...you can do nothing for the scalding effects and lack of slime coat. You just keep your water parameters as good as possible and cross your fingers.
I personally will never, ever use this stuff again. Yeah I know what some will say....no problem, safe, bla, bla, bla. Thats fine. If you feel comfortable with it, use it. But let me tell ya, if you ever watch your collection go through this, without being able to do anything for them, except what I mentioned, you'll never take the chance, no matter how slim the odds.
Had always used prazi with no problems. The value of those three koi would have kept me in Prazi for years. Always amazes me how we can spend so much money on filtration, equipment, food, and koi, and then get cheap when we treat for something because of comparative prices.
Anyway, for what it's worth. Hope it helps. I'm sure the Supraverm gods will tell me I'm nuts.....but that's ok...heard it before.

[tcheung]

Wait... so when you say flashing, you mean the koi are scraping the bottom of the pond with their sides, like that? That can be a sign of flukes or parasites? Sorry, i haven't had too many experience with diseases and stuffs, the closest thing was ich and i used coppersafe for that.

[Dan Blatt]

Coppersafe....now that's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

[tcheung]

Hahaha, indeed... but what can i say, at least it worked.

[mitten]

All that I've read, heard, and had hammered home, is that if you are going to shoot in the dark you are pretty likely to miss. Also, always, treat parasites first and then flukes.

So when I put on my shades and go out to check symptoms at night, under a new moon...

Mickey the windowman