American Nishikigoi--What is the Future?

[mitten]

And so Koiczar's post brings us back to American breeder's fish.

Are they good enought ot win GC? That was another thread wasn't it?

Are they good enough for the ride? W-I-D-E consensus, yes. Are they good enough for beauty? Yes. are they good enough for our ponds? Yes. Are there domestic fish worth our efforts and expense? Yes. Are they widely available? Don't think so. Are they cheap? Haha.

Doubts anyone? There is plenty of US harvest activity in October/November, possibly not for tourists, but for hearty souls with boots.

Mickey the windowman

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar Hey George, Marie What do you get if you cross a McDonald's with a Burger King - Ronald your way!!???HaHaHaHa That's a joke, son!!LOL Seriously though, The old lines are so diluted as to no longer be pure enough to be called anything other than who the current breeder is. Dainichi, Sensuke, Torazo,Sadazo, Matsunosuke, Hamamatsu, Tomoin. The only ones I know of that are still breeding pure are Jimbei and Genjiro breeds - I believe Sensuke. If you know the oyagoi the breeder used to rear a particular fish you're interested in and you have the opportunity to see the parents first hand, it certainly helps in the selection process and definitely would increase your chance of getting a very decent fish. Other than that, why worry about who the breeder is or what bloodline they come from. Just pick what you like and sit back and enjoy the ride Mike

Yes yes I understand just how diluted koi bloodlines are or can be, and that in every spawn, no matter how linebred or inbred, different things entirely are produced in varying percentages. How lucky can a gene-weaver get to have a spawn of thousands to study and pick through?! It beats the hell out of one foal a year when breeding horses, for instance. Imagine getting one koi from every spawn once a year...the hobby would still be in the stone age!

I'm not about to tell you that breeding koi for what you want to see is easy as pie. Though my posts seem overly simplified don't make the mistake of thinking that I think the whole thing is simple. I just don't have the time to discuss my views and experience on creating bloodlines in detail because it would take me all year and be hundreds of pages long!

But the fact remains that in due time, even when breeding blind (non pedigreed mutts of any species, etc and et al), a bloodline can be produced that will breed true to itself eventually, and if managed correctly over time, become prepotent and strong. This may be simply put, but it is NOT simple and it is anything but easy.

It is, however, possible. And I see several koi breeders from all over the world are doing it, INCLUDING here in the States.

Marie

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar Hey George, Marie What do you get if you cross a McDonald's with a Burger King - Ronald your way!!???HaHaHaHa That's a joke, son!!LOL Seriously though, The old lines are so diluted as to no longer be pure enough to be called anything other than who the current breeder is. Dainichi, Sensuke, Torazo,Sadazo, Matsunosuke, Hamamatsu, Tomoin. The only ones I know of that are still breeding pure are Jimbei and Genjiro breeds - I believe Sensuke. If you know the oyagoi the breeder used to rear a particular fish you're interested in and you have the opportunity to see the parents first hand, it certainly helps in the selection process and definitely would increase your chance of getting a very decent fish. Other than that, why worry about who the breeder is or what bloodline they come from. Just pick what you like and sit back and enjoy the ride Mike

I think Jimbei isnt pure anymore, they are using Matsunosuke to strenghting their bloodline. Alot of those names are what they are, just names now a days...On a note: We have to remember that for a breeder in Japan to even consider callhis own bloodline that it 1. they have to be breeding with that same line for atleast 10years and 2. the line has to be proven in Competition.

[Joansmithe]

That's right, Jimbai is an 'ideal' now, just a trait. Torazo sanke is also the way of the dinosaur. Yet Torazo still breeds sanke- good ones at that! Just not the original Torazo sanke. JR

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Joansmithe That's right, Jimbai is an 'ideal' now, just a trait. Torazo sanke is also the way of the dinosaur. Yet Torazo still breeds sanke- good ones at that! Just not the original Torazo sanke. JR

That is the process of evolution through selective breeding--one can only line breed so far before an outcross has got to be made. Life is change, it is not static. But the degree of purity attained in linebreeding is as necessary to evolution as outcrossing is. If it weren't for those original Jinbei or Torazos we wouldn't see those good ones come along after, even if they're not carbon copies of the original lines.

M

[junglegeorge12]

Everyone is looking for that perfect Supersize recipe that sells so well. Otherwise Ronald will take over the universe.

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by junglegeorge12 Everyone is looking for that perfect Supersize recipe that sells so well. Otherwise Ronald will take over the universe.

Build it and they will come...

[koiczar]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal Build it and they will come...

Marie

Don't you mean "Breed it and they will come"? LOL

Sorry guys, I was under the impression that Jimbei still was breeding true line BESIDES mixing Matsunosuke blood for size. What about Genjiro. Was that info correct or was it just more BS about another breeders oyagoi?

[l113892]

Maybe because my name gets mis-spelled I'll enter a correction...

The name is Toshikatsu Ikarashi, not Toshi Igarashi though he may shorten his first name.

[Joansmithe]

Thanks Mike for correcting the misspelling. But no, his name is Toshi to the locals. At least that is what I called him when he and wife lived at my house for a few weeks, a while back??? JR