Who Was the First to Breed Ochiba Shigure?

[Gene]

Here is a metallic Doitsu Ochiba bred by Kase. I took this photo on March 29th. It is nisai.

[Sangreaal]

B. Scott, very nice. Now that's the Ochiba type I really like the most. Beautiful conformation from head to tail, nice netting and coloration, nicely balanced plates. Have you noticed that alot of ochibas tend to have narrow tail tubes in relation to the rest of the body? That bothers me, and I wonder what it is in the crosses the breeders have made that creates this problem. Could it be from too much of a difference in the natural size/frame of the chosen parent stock when trying to introduce the color plates from a bloodline other than soragoi/chagoi?

Marie

[Sangreaal]

Gene, interesting doitsu. Kase breeds some pretty unusual koi. I have two LF Kumonryu from him that are quite lovely and unique. Thanks for sharing!

Marie

[B.Scott]

Thanks Marie,
Glad you like him. He has bulked up quite a bit since March. I'll try to get a new picture in September when I measure all the fish.
Indeed strange about the tail tubes Never really thought about it but now that you mention it I must agree. I really have no idea why this should be.

B.Scott

[Maurice]

Many of you will remember 'spot' my male Ochiba. He is now used in my breeding program.

[MikeM]

Genes worth saving, Maurice!

How are your Ochiba doing?

[EmeraldKoi]

I have been fiddling with breeding ochiba for some time, and have since given up in favour of trying showa. However I have bred a few nice ones, but from thousands of babies, only a few retained the colour, many got very dark and had to go.

I used a number of options over the years. Ochiba to ochiba is apparently not the way forward. I bred fron ginrin suragoi female to a male ochiba with some success, see one pic attached. this chap had the most beautiful copper coloured ginrin head, and great gin on the silver body. Sadly this one died in the growing on pond due to an algal bloom which sucked up all the oxygen and night, leaving me with about 10% deaths, and of course this chap was in with the losses.

Fur increased red in the colour, suragoi to kohaku. Graet for strong colour, but I am of the opinion that although the very reddish / copper ochiba are striking, a true light greenish / ochre fish , like the autumn leaves they represent, is still tops. Sadly they are hard to breed out of suragoi, and the slightest dark patches on the light colours will spoil the fish. They also seem sensitive to temperature over time, and also darken under certain water conditions, and can be ruined between one owner and the next.
Hence the value of a good ochiba specimen!

[B.Scott]

A cracker Maurice. I love it!

[dick benbow]

if you want to see a female breeder, you should see Mat Mc Cann's ochiba.
Why do you think I tried so hard this year top get a dozen of her babies to follow up on the dozen asagi's i raised from the year before. I have seen only one other koi of her color variety that was as beautiful. I'm quessing but when i saw her last fall I swore she was all of 40 inches! I remember seeing a pic of her this year in koi USA which featured an article that Mat wrote about his breeding program. To see her in person is to totally be persuaded!!!!!

paul: your right about the genetics. there are some koi when bred to their same kind that really don't "have it"....besides ochibas, beni kumonryu is another good example. When Koromos first came out, I loved them, now that they are a steady breed and mostly sumi koromos, I'm no longer interested.
Some of the first crosses were exquisite. Larry and pat christianson from Portland had a budo koromo called 'stormy" that was to die for. have not seen another that caliber in over a decade. Trouble is when you breed say an asagi to a kohaku to get Ai-koromo, the number of good ones is down, so from a business standpoint it doesn't pay. The few that turn out are exceptional but costly!from the viewpoint of the hobbyists....

[Sangreaal]

That's the one, Maurice! Spot is soooo lovely...er...handsome.

Thanks for posting his pic. Who shall you be breeding him to and for what desired result? Love to see more pics....

Marie

Quote: Originally Posted by Maurice Many of you will remember 'spot' my male Ochiba. He is now used in my breeding program.