Need help !!! Air Blader Infection?

[bekko]

,,, and 4) floating upside down at the surface.

He be dyin'.

When the swim bladder is screwed up, the fish will often have trouble remaining precisely upright. They will tend to list to one side or the other and/or have a nose-down posture.

James, when they decided alcoholism and gambling are diseases, they sort of opened the door, didn't they. In goldfish circles, everyone knows the acronym SBD - swim bladder disease.

-ste veho

[Tamianth]

Your right there Bekko, but the word should be dysfunction rather then disease, mo!

Dinh, I'd take the fish to the vet first if at all possible. X-ray's would be the best thing to see whats going on with this fish.

[johnsmith]

"James, when they decided alcoholism and gambling are diseases, they sort of opened the door, didn't they." - SH

Yep, but at least there, there was an Insurance angle at the heart of that proclamation! JR

[PapaBear]

JR's points are right in line with what I was thinking as I read along. The erratic swimming behavior due to loss of equilibrium weren't described in any of the symptoms.
I recently lost a Goshiki Sanke to the problem and it's symptoms were as follows.
Lying on bottom, usually listing to one side.
Swimming erratically, spinning in spiral circles, flipping upside down when it came near the surface.
Unable to maintain level posture in the water.
Returning to the bottom after exhausting itself.

We tried salted Qtank to ease osmotic stress and suspending in a net above the aerator to prevent exhaustion and hold it in a proper position to restore equilibrium. (this treatment has been used successfully by some)
It would help for a few days, but then the whole cycle would start again.
It finally exhausted itself fighting the good fight and we sent it off the fishy heaven (under an apple tree).
There were no signs of infection or parasites of any kind, so it may have been a congenital birth defect that was not evident until it outgrew the bladders ability to regulate body mass. From what I've read sometimes the smaller chamber will fail to develop properly or become obstructed rendering it incapable of regulating itself.
I even considered implant surgery (desperate thought, I know), but decided against it.

[paulino88]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnsmith To begin at the beginning--- a fish that rests on the bottom, may or may not have swim bladder disease. ( and even swim bladder 'disease' ain't a disease!). Lets look at this way- ALL fish with swim bladder disease sit on the bottom. BUT not all fish that sit on the bottom have swim bladder disease. So this fish can't be diagnosed with any of the swim bladder complex of diseases unless you see the following: 1) a fish that appears to be wasted or swollen in the area of the swim bladder and as the disease progresses, the tail thinning. 2) a fish that struggles to get to the surface and sinks when it is exhausted from that effort. Its head will wag wildly during this effort. 3) a fish that blows bubbles and when it gets to the surface , gulps air. More to follow, JR

Interesting thread guys !

I always thought that sinking disease to be identical with bacterial infections that reach swim bladder organ. I lost a sanke due to the disease just earlier this year and wants to prevent it in the future.

JR, in your post you mention no 3 as a topic in swim bladder, once a while i saw my fishes come up for air and gulps, is this early indication of sinking disease ? Thanks in advance. Paul.

[KoiCop]

Passed on from JR's post in another parish:

Paul, I'm having trouble with getting on Bito and I wanted to answer you about 'bubble blowing' in koi. Maybe one of our other multi-mag board readers will give Paul a heads up?

Koi can blow air bubbles for a number of reasons. One is due to gas staturation issues and another is just plain lod grooming of the gills( to remove mucous congestion or a trapped particle). So not to worry about this symptom alone.
Happy koi keeping, JR

[paulino88]

KoiCop, thanks for passing the message to this board and thanks to JR too. I m hoping JR could continue on the 'more to follow' discussion of this swim bladder diseases especially what precautions steps should be taken to prevent such diseases.

Well, I have asked other for opinions concerning fish gulping for air, some say that that is due to the way the fish eats (if the fish is greedy) or the swim bladder organ is weak. Once when meeting with Kentaro Sakai, he also mentioned the relation between pond depth and sinking disease, as a result he advises the ideal pond depth to be no more than 1,5 meter and he also mentioned that sinking disease is curable at early stage but i forgort to ask what is the name of the antibiotic injection. I am hoping Dinh conversation with Joel could fill in the blank here. Paul.

[dechoong]

Quote: Originally Posted by dinh Thanks much Joel... We will call you soon. --Dinh

I think the medication used by SFF is the antibiotic CIPROBAY. I've used it to good effect on my Tsukitsuke Rose with the same swimbladder problem only recently

Dennis

[marco]

Hi Dinh, I just came back from a long weekend and read this interesting thread.
How is the koï at the moment ?

If she is old, a tumor could compress the swim bladder and explain the symptoms.

The swim bladder has a little comunication with the intestine by a little canal (Ductus pneumaticus),and if the koï is constipated, this "ductus" can be close and gives some swim bladder malfunction. In this case, giving a little parafine direct in the mouth or mixed with the food could also help to recovery.

At last infection of swim bladder are not only caused by bacteria but also by different intestinal protozoan. If you find glassy sheets (sorry I dont know the polite term) floating on the water you can suspect it. Treat with metronidazole knowing that it is toxic for kidney and lever...

If you suspect bacteria infection a lot of antibiotics should work: Amikacin, Azactan, Baytryl, Nuflor ...

A x ray examination is very simple to do and will be interesting. If your vet does'nt know exactly how a normal swim bladder should loock, bring him a healty koï to compare.
Good luck

Marco