Southern California Koi Store

[Rich L]

He isn't strictly high end, but he some of the really high end folks out there have him on their short list.

[philhunter]

koiczar,

Such anger! Apparently you have issues with Toyoma. I have dealt with Roland for many years and have not had any issues with him. Since you supposedly know all the dealers, you should know which ones keep a selection of higher quality koi and which ones sell koi for larger consumption. I have visited all of the mentioned dealers many times, and have koi from a few. I did not say "grand champion", I said "high end". Which apparently means the same thing as grand champion to you. To me, it means higher quality than what you find at the average dealer, not necessarily Grand Champion winner. Perhaps I should have used the term "better than average", or such.

As far as insults, it is you who seems to be the one throwing them around. You seem to think I know nothing of high quality koi. While I have not had the success of Nancy and some others, I was lucky enough to have won a Grand Champion in 1999 , with a Toyoma koi, and numerous other Best in Size and Best in Variety awards when I was showing koi, so I think I have a good knowledge on what a quality koi is. In addition, I have been keeping koi successfully for over 20 years, so I am not new to the hobby.

The original intent of this post was to help Minster49, find a koi dealer in SoCal to buy koi. Instead, it has turned into a debate on the merits of various SoCal koi dealers. We should all be ashamed.

Phil

[koiczar]

Phil

Congrats on your prestigious record. I mean that seriously. However, I must say that comparing Toyoma with Andy Moo or Ken Tran's eye IS AN INSULT!! I have known the guys for many years now (even was in Japan with Ken and was there when Andy was twice). Seen them at many shows. Yes, all dealers bring in some low end stuff along with the higher quality fish. Not everyone appreciates what thery're looking at and the price doesn't seem justified. However, I AM NOT TALKING GRAND CHAMPION CALIBER. I am talking about the same thing you are. If Roland has a "few" ponds in his backyard with high quality fish, that's great. If you don't mind his prices, that's great too. I was simply pointing out that your comparison with all the other SoCal dealers was a real KNOCK on their establishments and the history/reputation they bring to the table!!

Phil, with your time in the hobby and the awards you've won, I'm sure you can look back and compare the fish from 1999 and be able to say they probably wouldn't be as competitive 7 or 8 years later. A lot has changed here and abroad over that period of time. The fish competing on the high end of the shows are a lot different in many respects from yesteryear.

Mike

Quote: Originally Posted by philhunter koiczar, Such anger! Apparently you have issues with Toyoma. I have dealt with Roland for many years and have not had any issues with him. Since you supposedly know all the dealers, you should know which ones keep a selection of higher quality koi and which ones sell koi for larger consumption. I have visited all of the mentioned dealers many times, and have koi from a few. I did not say "grand champion", I said "high end". Which apparently means the same thing as grand champion to you. To me, it means higher quality than what you find at the average dealer, not necessarily Grand Champion winner. Perhaps I should have used the term "better than average", or such. As far as insults, it is you who seems to be the one throwing them around. You seem to think I know nothing of high quality koi. While I have not had the success of Nancy and some others, I was lucky enough to have won a Grand Champion in 1999 , with a Toyoma koi, and numerous other Best in Size and Best in Variety awards when I was showing koi, so I think I have a good knowledge on what a quality koi is. In addition, I have been keeping koi successfully for over 20 years, so I am not new to the hobby. The original intent of this post was to help Minster49, find a koi dealer in SoCal to buy koi. Instead, it has turned into a debate on the merits of various SoCal koi dealers. We should all be ashamed. Phil

[philhunter]

Mike,

I agree that the koi coming into the country today are far better than what was available in 1999, and , of course the prices have escalated accordingly. The days of a moderately priced koi winning GC are pretty much over. I agree about the dealers you mentioned and have purhased koi from them in the past. With respect to the rest of your comments, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Phil