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Old 08-19-2006   #1 (permalink)
Nisai
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Paducah, Kentucky
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Why arent there more dealers coming out clean if they have KHV?

Why arent there more dealers coming out clean if they have KHV?
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Old 08-19-2006   #2 (permalink)
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Well..its the obvious stigma attached to it!! Come clean, and lose your livlihood. If I found out my local dealer had KHV, I certainly wouldn't rush out and buy fish from him!! I think many will do their best to take care of the issue...but wont want anyone to know about it. Hey, why don't we know all the Japanese breeders who got hit with khv recently? They stated there were around 8. Anyone know the names, because I haven't seen them listed?!?! Same reason!!
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Old 08-19-2006   #3 (permalink)
Sansai
 
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can you list some dealers who have "come clean" in the past few years?

it would seem they would be the best to buy from because they have cleaned up their premises, learned how to deal with khv, and won't take any shortcuts.
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Old 08-19-2006   #4 (permalink)
Sansai
 
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How do they know the true and real source of the outbreak. Did an employee accept a fishback from a customer? Did the dealer quarantine ALL fish properly? Sometimes it is hard to trace back the actual roots. Most of it is speculation. So if someone starts accusing someone else of the cause (and maybe that is not the true cause) then all chaos breaks out. I appreciate those that do admit they had it and I like to hear the steps they are taking to prevent it from happening again. May research continue to help control this problem.
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Old 08-19-2006   #5 (permalink)
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Yume Koi and Momotaro(breeder) come to mind.

I know of another that had KHV but I will not post their name. They had KHV last year and it killed all their koi because the used the same bowls and nets in all the tanks and don't keep the shipments seperate. This year they still do the same old thing. No difference from last year. Absolutely zero precautions against KHV. They don't even have a PP tank for cleaning the nets, bowls etc.

On a different aspect of coming clean...what if a dealer brings in a shipment and while they are in qt the shipment turns out to be infected? The dealer then destroys the shipment, bleachs the tanks etc. Do you all think they should tell the public about it?
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Old 08-20-2006   #6 (permalink)
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Awe I remember when Japan Koi Online got KHV, they invited all the clubs down, explained the situation to us all, had Dr. Robert Hildreth and Joel B answer questions. We also seen with our very own eyes thousands of koi that Taro had distroyed to prevent the spreading. Taro was very honest and forthcoming, when he contacted khv. I don't see his bussines suffering any, in fact I think it is thrieving. So honesty can be the best policy for some.
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Old 08-20-2006   #7 (permalink)
Sansai
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorth View Post

On a different aspect of coming clean...what if a dealer brings in a shipment and while they are in qt the shipment turns out to be infected? The dealer then destroys the shipment, bleachs the tanks etc. Do you all think they should tell the public about it?
yes, and they should tell where the shipment was purchased from. how can you eraddicate a disease if people cover it up.

by not telling about it the dealer is insuring that the people who sold him the fish will sell other khv fish to innocents who trust the dealers to protect them from khv.
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Old 08-20-2006   #8 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
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I think one of the reasons noone says anything is due to wanting to be fair to one another. After the earthquake alot of koi got mixed as there was not enough water to keep all the koi from all the breeders as a large number of muds and concrete ponds were emptied and cracked. As well, many oyagoi or potential oyagoi and entire stocks were just gone overnight. The result was that the mixing took place to rescue breeders who had lost thier ponds and also many of their top koi and oyagoi. There was great grief there and the koi community showed it's splendor by coming together to help one another in remarkable ways. In the aftermath there were khv breakouts as well as frantic buying of oyagoi to rebuild lost stock and compete on the show circuit. Tracing it back to it's original source to villify one source in the midst of an aftermath like that, is virtually impossible. To start naming names is unfair because the ones guilted might be the best and most innocent breeders out there. So they chose to handle it their way, to take care of each other. A good cultural lesson for us overly competitive Americans.

Imagine if the dealers here ever started doing that instead of accosting each other via internet chat forums...what a world the koi world would be then. I think mentioning names of folks who have had it in years past is unjust and a cheap shot at this point, and I hope no more names are mentioned or maybe I will recall a few. But hey, maybe someone could pull a few more sales if I mention a few, some who never made it public and claim the koi were kept only in quarantine but eyewitnesses say other wise......see what I mean? I think we need to take a lesson from the Japanese here, and be led by them in this industry, since they are the world leaders in it. Teamwork will snuff the disease out much quicker, using it to snuff out competition only raises the legitimate concern of malicious wrongdoing.

I can state what my intel background would tell me. Given the number of recent breakouts, once it was discovered it could ruin a competitor, a certain % of these breakouts would almost have to be malicious. Find the least affected by the bad news, and the most benefitted, and you have your likely perpetrators to investigate and keep a careful eye on. Enemies or market competitors in commmon are another factor to watch carefully. Especially those with the ability to get koi inside another breeder's facility or a lab to make it in. The two easiest ways to be malicious would be to inject the virus directly into the water from a culture growth of some sort in a hidden vial via a visitor, or to introduce an infected fish or other critter. The most likely source would be one who folks are buying oyagoi from and are trusted who have the ability lab wise to infect koi intentionally before shipping out. So that list of 'trusted sources', has to unfortunately be wiped out and breeders must quarantine oyagoi and resellers must keep their batch for a while before selling and test. That process will also isolate the source and identify it, as well as stopping the spread of naturally occuring KHV. That is with the assumption that we do not discover this disease is somehow genetic in nature and breaks out under certain physiological conditions or ages.

Given that at least in my eyes, intentional wrongdoing is appearing more and more likely, I think it is best if noone mentions where they got infected koi from. Because it is quite possible a visitor intentionally infected them prior to shipping or on arrival. When I see a photo of someone being marched off in handcuffs due to photographic or other evidence proving it was been done intentionally, I will change my thinking.
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Old 08-20-2006   #9 (permalink)
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Why weren't more girls I dated up front when they had herpes....same reason..LOL!!!

Just kidding, couldn't resist!!

Hey, whats the difference between herpes and true love....herpes lasts forever...lol!!!
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Old 08-20-2006   #10 (permalink)
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Most dealers don't have a clue how they contacted KHV. If a shipment comes in, most of the time the dealer has been to several breeders in Japan on a buying trip. They use an agent, who collects the fish from the various breeders after payment is arranged. The dealer comes back to the states, the agent boxes up the MIXED fish and ships them over here. The dealer receives them, puts them into quarantine. If they do break out with ANY disease, they have no way to identify who the breeder with the infected fish was. Maybe it wasn't even a breeder, maybe it was the lack of cleanliness of the shippers property!! So, as JG says, it's better not to point a finger.

There is a breeder/dealer that I know of that was shut down a few years ago due to a KHV outbreak. They were certified "clean" by the authorities, started back up again and BAMM they're infected and shut down again this year. So, how do you know, even after being "certified" that you are in fact "clean"!????
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