Polyueria vs. Fiberglass, which would you use?

[schildkoi]

Keep in mind, both are GREAT products, when done properly! When not done properly, both products "suck".

Jeff, you are getting a good man in Rich, but you said this last.........

Quote: No where in this thread did I indicate that geo & polyurea is in any way a structural membrane of any kind.

And this previously.......

Quote: Polyurea can be applied straight on to geotextile as a membrane, which would eliminate the cost of gunite, rebar, and labor to put on coating.

The point you are apparently missing is that a Koi pond requires a structure for the polyurea. Your 2 statements contradict each other and that is the "flustering" part. Although "it can" be applied as you state, that is an inappropriate method for a Koi pond...get it?

Steve

[woodyaht]

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi Keep in mind, both are GREAT products, when done properly! When not done properly, both products "suck".

You got that right Steve!

[Rich L]

T'all depends,

I believe Jeff was referring to ponds we traditionally use liners on. They might be better if they had a strong structure, but in the hobby, we cut that corner all the time.

There's a trade off when a hobbyist is building a pond between a well engineered pond and one that 'serves'. I've seen liner and poorly installed fiberglass ponds lacking sufficient support with sagging clumps of soil at the bottem after several years in the hobby and those people would have been much better served if the installer understood the problems he was creating for the owner. On the other hand I've seen great liner and stand alone fiberglass ponds. It was a gamble, but it paid off for those people.

What we need, rather than pointing a finger and starting a directionless competitive dialog is examples of good structures and the concepts that differentiate them from the present standards, etc.

A good example is Chris’ comment on using cement board to provide structure. That never occurred to me and I’ve already presented that as a solution to people. It’s obvious the hobby needs input from professionals who have a much broader experience, particularly with structural training and now fiberglass work. Take a look at the Filter construction handbook and see what Manual Fuentes presented to us. I learned a lot about fiberglass from his article.

Take a positive approach and teach us rather than criticize. I wouldn’t be surprised to find as many people watching this string are focused on who will win as compared to those looking for one more grain of knowledge.

Hey Chris; what's this kiss thing? Do we hang out with the same crowd?

[schildkoi]

Cement board is not a structure either. Its a surfacing method typically used for wet locations such as bathrooms to apply a tile surface on. Sheet rock deteriorates with moisture, cement board doesn't....but even cement board in those applications requires a structure, as an example, wood or steel studded walls.

As for:

Quote: I believe Jeff was referring to ponds we traditionally use liners on. They might be better if they had a strong structure, but in the hobby, we cut that corner all the time.

What Jeff may or may not have been refrring to is one thing, what he wrote was another. He specifically stated that using poly with geotextile fabric can replace gunite and rebar...that doesn't sound like a pond that would traditionally be a liner pond to me, you? As for "cutting corners," one needs to understand which corners can/should be cut and which shouldn't. I'd post some pictures of some "cut corners" as it relates to lack of structure, but for some reason they won't upload...even when reduced drastically.

Steve

[aquitori]

In pond building, especially the sealant side, most builders give a guarantee of one year...and why is that? Shot, you could tell me a sealant is good for 30 years from the manufacture, but on the build side it is only as good as the person appling for 1 year. The chances of failure is higher then.

Either product will work, on the DIY side fiberglass is a better shot.

[schildkoi]

Quote: Either product will work, on the DIY side fiberglass is a better shot.

Fibergalss may be better for DIYers, BUT, I wouldn't even recommend that for the DIYer. It really takes a good, experienced "glasser" to do it correctly.

Just my opinion of course.

Steve

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori In pond building, especially the sealant side, most builders give a guarantee of one year...and why is that? Shot, you could tell me a sealant is good for 30 years from the manufacture, but on the build side it is only as good as the person appling for 1 year. The chances of failure is higher then. Either product will work, on the DIY side fiberglass is a better shot.

Hi Tony,

By law, builders are only required to give a one year warranty which is probably why that is all any one gets. That does not mean that the product will fail. Also the warranty is only good if the product fails because of poor installation. If the product itself fails, then the installer is not liable.

Russ

[Russell Peters]

Sometimes builders will sell extended warranties for a price. I know of situations where 10 year warranties were sold, but the price of the warranty covered replacement costs. What ggod is that to the homeowner.

Russ

[dubtaco]

I personally like the smooth look of fiberglass.

[schildkoi]

The Koi appreciate the smooth FEEL of the fiberglass.

Steve