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Old 09-18-2006   #101 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmith View Post
yes, yes David, I'm a very bad boy. I have nothing to offer on this subject. What will be will be. How's the koi farm coming by the way ? JR

P.S. how is the real George's farm doing by the way?
Not sure what that question means? Seems like you are thinking something confused about me or someone named George. We are all doing well here. Clarify what you 'think' or r trying to guess at and maybe I can clear that up for you. junglegeorge is a nic name I have used for many years.

I also have several friends actually named George though. One of them is one who first encouraged me to build a farm here. Nice guy. Been around koi for longer than you, one of the few. Not much of a show circuit guy tho.

I build more on the farm every day. Just finishing up some new spawning tanks and a large pond for some oyagoi. It's a slow process with lots of hard work, as any one who has built a farm can attest to, that takes years. Maybe I will have some photos for you by spring.
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Old 09-18-2006   #102 (permalink)
Tategoi
 
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yes, I know of George, David. Been selling koi for a lot of years now. Used to buy from Jose Guetis in the early 90s. JR
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Old 09-18-2006   #103 (permalink)
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I don't know Jose Guetis so I don't know if it's the same guy. Might be. Lots of George's in the world. Lots of em down here, but they spell it Jorge. Very common name here. Either way, he is a nice guy. Can't say the same, unfortunately, for everyone down here.
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Old 09-18-2006   #104 (permalink)
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Lets get back on topic guys. Thanks.
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Old 09-18-2006   #105 (permalink)
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Sure, sure. What is the topic again?? O yea, That's right. I'll tell you for sure on the 30th, Jim ! JR
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Old 09-19-2006   #106 (permalink)
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OK, back on topic . . .

Several of us read this on NI and concluded Mike was most probably referring to Momo:

Re: KHV update in Niigata

Posted by Michael Van Neste on 9/1/2006, 6:14 pm, in reply to "Re: KHV update in Niigata"
User logged in as: Michael Van Neste
87.244.64.37
Dick
Yes, 2 of the 3 exporting breeders in Niigata were named. I happen to know personally some of the other breeders concerned who do not export. This has been devastating to them, as you can imagine. Also reported was the name of at least one of the sources in the south. This is a prominent breeder who has previously been known to have been affected by KHV and widely reported. It seems to me that a lot of the problems we know about relate back to one particular source.
I think this answers your question Dick. I will continue to post information I know to be reliable and current with a view to promoting the sharing of correct knowledge. I hope this will help hobbyists (who have no cause to panic) as well as the breeders of Niigata who continue to need the support of hobbyists and dealers alike. Michael

Yume Koi is
the sole agent in the UK for Momotaro, who fits the above description (prominent southern breeder with previously known and widely reported KHV outbreak).

Only time will tell -- b
ut if true, will he be able to to ship koi to the US under these new regulations? Or do these new regulations only apply to SVC?
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Old 09-19-2006   #107 (permalink)
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Hi Don, I'm pretty reluctant to point a finger at Momotaro simply because I gave them such on hard time on the FIR nonsense . And further, because anyone could have been unlucky enough to have gotten a dose of KHV once the food supply fish started coming from China and let to linger in the natural water supply/ Rivers.
So without adding to anyone’s hardships and hoping to add some information and perspective to the conversation—
Niigata is the birthplace of nishikigoi. Other regions grew out koi and eventually bred tateshita for export, but it was Niigata that held the ‘holy grail’ of genetics.
After world war two, large amounts of koi were brought from the North to the South for both export and grow out. The war had wiped out the lowland breeders in the Hiroshima area and the North escaped damage. The north then resupplied the demand for koi once again in the south.
It was the immigrants of Hiroshima and that lingering connection to the home land that brought koi to Hawaii and later Southern California. Most of this was around the landscaping business and not from high end collector demand. And since knowledge base was low outside Japan, these tateshita from Southern Japan served the demand well.
As time passed and demand for ‘good koi like in the TFH picture books’ increased, the Northern clans began exporting in earnest- directly. With ZNA amateurs leading the way as Japanese koi judges, the road was paved for breeders and Japanese carpet baggers to follow.
Meanwhile, back in Japan, a curious thing began happening, the Southern ‘customer breeders’ of the great Northern Breeders were becoming serious breeders in their own right. They not only had now gathered a good gene pool, they had years of skill established and something the North did not have- a very long growing season. Konishi, Sakai SFF, Tanaka, Omosako were all moving from grow out status/local breeders, to world class producers.
Moving ahead to more modern times, the Sakai SFF became renowned for it’s high class tategoi auction. More recently, Momotaro has become known for the same kind of tategoi auction.
So Ironically, today, many of the Northern breeders come down to buy stock for their own lines. The direction of sales ( north to south) has indeed reversed! South to North! This is due to the numbers game and the weather as much as the skill of the southern breeders. So today many of the North’s blood lines flourish in the south and in some case, superior to the north’s.
Here in lies a problem however. Northern breeders buying southern stock ‘may have’ invited KHV into their farms? This is not a blame game, only one explanation as to how the disease ‘can’ travel around Japan during the regular course of business.

Hope this sheds some light without disrupting anyone's apple cart!

JR
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Old 09-19-2006   #108 (permalink)
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There are Nishikigoi on the Horizon!

I just wanted to say that I spoke with Dr. Peter Merrill today about bringing in our next large shipment of Koi. I am not going to go into any details as I do not want to argue with any one about what I now know. It really is a very simple process and after going over US permits and Japanese health certificates with Dr. Merrill I do not see the need for ANY worry. If you know what you are doing you can bring in Koi.
Dan and Sharon, I will PM you in a day or so with the information you need to bring in Koi. Toshio Sakai has also asked me for the same infromation so they can understand the US side of it as well.
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Old 09-19-2006   #109 (permalink)
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Well I am glad someone finally spoke to Dr. Merril. That's truly good news Russ.

It may surprise you, but for me personally, the two year thing would not done much but hinder me from obtaining more oyagoi. It will take me longer than that to reach my goals of production to be ready to even start think or dream about any US sales. However, the breederies that exist, as well as the dealers, in the US, definitely need some protection, they have been getting hammered hard regularly. From Blackwater to the recent problem in Ohio. I personally, don't think continual trends like that are all 'accidental' or 'coincidence'. Not everyone or everything can be bought. It may be before this is all over we get to hear Donald Trump's favorite words.

In response to JR's post-
So in other words, Sakai dominated that market for many decades, then Momotaro showed up and was having a huge impact. Then they got khv. Now 35+ cases of khv in Nigata are being attributed to them, is that the hint? Ahem.(clears throat)

Out of curiosity, the khv you mentioned from the food industry out of china, what regions in Japan were first impacted by that, especially in terms of the rivers and wildlife release?

Also, who is Micheal Van Neste, and why does this khv subject pop up on this svc reg thread?(I do understand they r both serious issues) Maybe it deserves another thread with a life of it's own.

For me though, like JR, I don't buy into the current rumor as to the real source of problems. It is a convenient story for certain concerns though, maybe too convenient. Ahem.

BTW JR, my grandfather was in WW2 on a destroyer the whole Pacific war. He taught me to love the japanese and did all he could to help rebuild their land. His view was that it was just a few in the ruling class who sparked the war off. He saw first hand the destruction from the bombs. Whenever the subject came up he cried.
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Old 09-19-2006   #110 (permalink)
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"This is due to the numbers game and the weather as much as the skill of the southern breeders. So today many of the North’s blood lines flourish in the south and in some case, superior to the north’s. "-JR

Great point.
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