Possible ban on koi and goldfish?

[B.Scott]

The danger of this happening to this degree is much lewwof KHV than with SVC. The latter have the potential to infect may more spiecies besides carp with KHV being very carp specific.

B.Scott

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by B.Scott The danger of this happening to this degree is much lewwof KHV than with SVC. The latter have the potential to infect may more spiecies besides carp with KHV being very carp specific. B.Scott

I was thinking pretty much along the same lines. KHV is (for the time being) very specific to ornamental Koi. Not way up on the high priority list for Uncle Sam. SVC on the other hand infects many species in the wild so the driving force behind this new reg isn't at all about ornamental fish, but keeping SVC from infesting fish in US navigable waterways.
I say "for the time being" about KHV being Koi specific because it is a virus, and viruses have a nasty habit of mutating over time until they are able to spread interspecies rather than intraspecies. Unless pressure is brought to bear to include KHV in this type of regulation it will likely remain ignored as it has no impact on fish in the wild... for now.

[dizzyfish]

I guess your right about KHV being koi specific, but an LA transhipper told me he thought it might also be carried by gouramis. Perhaps he was just trying to reason away huge loses in those species. Let's hope it hasn't mutated.

For anyone who doubts Thailand is producing some high quality koi I have provided a link to an exporter. Check out the Kohaku. http://www.grandaquatic.com/Koi-fish.asp

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko Russ, wouldn't the Japanese breeders who ship to the EU already be doing this paperwork? Nancy, I thought the inspection fee was $94 per shipment. Do they need to inspect facilities for every shipment? That is not the norm. What if you go through a trans-shipper in LA or somewhere? Once received by the trans-shipper, wouldn't the fish become domestic cargo? I want to see the text of the regulations but that that site is down. Did anyone save a copy of the regs when they had the chance? -stevehop

Steve,

You are correct, only transhippers need have their facilities inspected. It is very complicated as they need to have seperate areas for quarantine that would not allow under any circumstances any cross contamination. For dealers like us the fee is $94.00 per shipment and that is a permit fee that has to accompany the shipment from point of origin. As I stated before, the real cost for us would be having to pay the APHIS Vet to come to the airport and inspect the shipment. There is only one certified Vet in Northern California and he is in Sacramento.
The bottom line is that if you are a dealer importing directly from Japanese breeders that have had in effect an SVC inspection for two years you will have no problem with importing Koi. We do not use trans shippers. We do not need to have our facility inspected. It is a complicated process but it will not stop Koi from coming in. It will only weed out the bad sources that should not be there any way. I do not think that it will really help domestic breeders that much because, as I have said before, they charge more for their Koi wholsale than Koi coming from Taiwan, Indonesia or other places and I really don't think the quality is much better.

I do not know what the process is for European brokers. I just know that the Japanese have had an SVC program in effect for many years.

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by dizzyfish I guess your right about KHV being koi specific, but an LA transhipper told me he thought it might also be carried by gouramis. Perhaps he was just trying to reason away huge loses in those species. Let's hope it hasn't mutated. For anyone who doubts Thailand is producing some high quality koi I have provided a link to an exporter. Check out the Kohaku. http://www.grandaquatic.com/Koi-fish.asp

I have seen pix of some real lookers from Thailand. According to their website it sounds like they may have the proper controls and certifications in place to comply with the new regs aleady.

[dizzyfish]

Quote: Originally Posted by Russell Peters . It will only weed out the bad sources that should not be there any way. I do not think that it will really help domestic breeders that much because, as I have said before, they charge more for their Koi wholsale than Koi coming from Taiwan, Indonesia or other places and I really don't think the quality is much better.

Russ,
That's not necessarily the case. You could get weeded out even if you never had any cases of disease on your farm. This is guilty until proven innocent. The two year period is the killer. I would suspect the places you mentioned like Taiwan and Indo would be the some of the ones that didn't have this testing protocol in place. Other places would possibly be Thailand and Maylasia, and Korea. *If* a lot of farms from these other Asian countries (other than Japan) got weeded out it would probably benefit domestic breeders. There is clearly two types of customers in the US, those who want quality and those who want cheap. And then there are those who want quality for cheap. There are probably higher labor costs to produce koi in the US compared to the Far East. Perhaps this will help to level the playing field.
Mitch

[junglegeorge12]

Does anyone know which Japanese breeders will meet the regs, and which ones will suffer, and does anyone know if there is a way to import regardless of breeder or origin if you do testing etc???

[PapaBear]

Which one???
The GC contender market is owned by the Japanese with a tiny handful of outsiders nibbling at the edges. Those high end Japanese breeders also have the highest probability of already meeting the new regs as proposed.
The playing fields that may get leveled are the mid-range and low end markets.
Sickly tateshita raised in SE Asian backwater farms are dumped here on the cheap, and those low end breeders are unlikely to have adequate controls in place. That will probably help the American breeders get a higher demand for their low price chain store culls.
The mid-range market will likely have some foreign sources that aren't up to speed on testing yet, which will improve the prospects for American bred "tategoi".
No doubt some low-end foreign breeders will go under with the loss of the American market. IMHO most of the ones that will probably should. SVC hasn't become a big enough problem to warrant new regs because of clean farms... only diseased ones with little or no quality controls.

[junglegeorge12]

That doesn't answer the question at all. It boils down to who has been meeting particular, very specific regs, not who has been producing show koi. Two entirely different subjects.

You can have had the highest class breedery in the world for decades, totally SVC free, and not have met every item of their regs. I want names. A list. Not a hypothectical application of someone else's rules, but a solid yes or no for the particular breeders we all buy from here. Maybe they don't even know yet, maybe they are scrambling to find out if their way of doing things meets the rules. Anyone know more about that?

PS- US markets cannot be owned, dominated ethically by superior products or pricing yes, owned, nope. America, home of the free and the brave. Isn't it great? Free to dissent. Free to hold officials accountable and where noone is above the law. No matter how much 'passion' they have.
God bless America.

[jnorth]

If you want to comment the website is now back up.

http://www.regulations.gov

Search on 2006-0107 in the "Keyword or ID" field.