Possible ban on koi and goldfish?

[marco]

Quote: Originally Posted by dizzyfish Clinical signs of SVC Externally, the fish can exhibit a number of non–specific physical signs including darkening of the skin, swollen abdomen, exophthalmia (pop–eye), hemorrhages in the skin, gills and anterior eye chamber, anemia and pale gills, and a protruding vent. Internally, the signs are dominated by building up of fluid (edema) in all organs and in the body cavity, hemorrhages in the swim bladder, and inflammation of the intestines. Mitch

These are the symptoms you find in all type of septicemia, IMHO, I don't think it's really specific of one desease.

Because SVC is dangerous for other fish then koï, SVC it's actually on the list of contagious illness that are submited to be declared to national vet service in France, but there is no control on koi importation at the moment.

But, once they begin to ask importation conditions for one kind of illness, other type of pathology will follow because some people live from making and preparing such laws.
The problem is that very often they are completely disconected from reality ..

Anyway it's a good job and well paid for the vet

[junglegeorge12]

Alot of info to sift thru. I can see why not too many importers are commenting, it is a ton of info to digest at once.

It looks to me like there are specific ports of entry that have veterinary staff that must be used. The koi cannot leave the port until they have had a test that it suggest takes 4.5 hours, they test for svc and some pathogens. There is a charge for that service, the vets charge by the hour. It pans out to about a minimum of $500/ shipment. So when shipping a container must be built that will keep the fish alive even if held up overnight, imagine if the flight arrives alte and the vet goes at a certain hour, they mention the reponsibility is on the shipper to provide a container that will handle that. But that's the good news. So it looks ike importers are going to have to build special shipping containers now, with perhaps a battery operated filtration/oxygenation system. I have seen folks use old A144 containers for shiping lobster live. They build a few big tanks inside it and use batteries to run pumps and air pumps. Not hard to do actually, and the shipping rate on one of those is way cheaper than individual boxes if you load it up.

The bad news is the svc free area it needs to come from. Looks like alot of breeders may be digging wells soon to establish one. Looks like river feeds have just become a really bad and risky idea. If your neighbor gets it, you can't export until eh has been clean for 2 yrs if you use the same water supply.

The svc certificates to assure the APHIS requirements are met have to done by a certified vet, both with them and the local authorities there, and have to have a 2 yr clean track record. If using a river or other water supply than your own well, the entire sector has to have a 2 yr clean track record. That is the way it reads to me.

Maybe some importers who have looked into it could comment. If I was an importer, I believe I would be on my way to the airport to buy 2 yrs worth of supply now. This looks scary, but it almost needs the shipping and importing experts to decipher it and tell us what it all means and how it is going to play out on the ground and in reality.

[dick benbow]

I quess I'm not much of a risk taker...I'd be too nervous about buying two years worth of goods knowing I could just as well loose it all suddenly.

Besides i'm afraid that the koi I'd be interested in wouldn't be in a place where you could just scoop them up readily and ship. Would have to wait for the mud ponds to be drained. I quess you could buy small tosai tateshita that didn't make the last cull but it just wouldn't seem to me anyway the best way to deal with it.

Interesting times in which we live...too bad I didn't go to Vet school! I think all the extra charges for special containers and special fees sounds like the price of imported koi might just become more dear....

[Danjols]

Talked with Airport Brokers, they assist us when importing koi, and Fish & Wildlife @ SeaTac. In both cases they have heard rumors but do not know what to expect with the Sept. 29th deadline.

From my perspective and after speaking with our Japanese connection, the process of importing will need some time to shake out but all feel there will be a way. Planning on going to Harvest in Oct. but may cancel with this latest governmental restriction.

I really don't think anyone knows what to expect until APHIS gets the information to Fish & Wildlife, for which they have not so far. I guess the only thing we can expect, Sept. 29th will arrive and fish shipments will either be stopped, turned away or released. Way too risky for this hobbyists at this time.

[dick benbow]

Dan, Hope you two get to go to Japan this year.....if not I'm sure looking forward to our trip to Nisei Koi farm and our annual visit with Mat. The flight is not quite so long, the mud ponds full of bright fish and promise....it wouldn't seem right not to participate in the passage of fall..and the anticipation to see how much our "babies" have grown....maybe for just a few days we can get away from the stress and cares of this world and emerse our selves in...well...MUD!

[marco]

Quote: Originally Posted by junglegeorge12 It looks to me like there are specific ports of entry that have veterinary staff that must be used. The koi cannot leave the port until they have had a test that it suggest takes 4.5 hours, they test for svc and some pathogens. There is a charge for that service, the vets charge by the hour. It pans out to about a minimum of $500/ shipment. .

Maybe it's interesting for to know how an importer is working in the south of France, surely not the only solution but one that seems to work.
When he import koï, he is not allowed to sell them and to mix them with others koï until an official vet came and make some test like basic skin test and maybe skv (I will contact the vet and i will confirm you that later).
The importer must have quarantene tank for all fish with a listing of all koi in the different tanks. During 2 weeks he can have a visit surprise of a vet who control the listing of all tank and control that no koï seems to be hill. If there is a quarantene problem, the importer lose his selling license; if there is a sickness problem he must treat the problem and other test will be done before he will be allowed to sell all the koï imported.

There are only a few importer that import directly from Japan, most of them buy the koi in Nederland, Germany or Belgium, so they don't have this problem.
I don't know if this system is really official or if it's an agreement between that importer and the vet service of south of France but it seems that it works.
Once I wanted to buy him a koï and he refuse because the two weeks were not past and he wasn't allowed to sell them, so he seems to respect the rules.
Otherway, I know that he loose a lot of his own biggest koi show last year, was it a water contamination with the imported koï ?, I have tryied to know but that was a tabu question ...
Marco

[dizzyfish]

Marco,
Can the fish that are in quarantine be in the same room as fish offered for sale?
Mitch

[Russell Peters]

I find it puzzling how there is so much guessing and worry about what is going to happen with the new restrictions on Koi importation. Now remember, they are just restrictions and if the requirements are followed there should be no problems importing Koi.
I have been in contact with Torazo about Koi from the Niigata area. Torazo is our friend, shipper and agent. Everything we do goes through him. Just about the same time as all of the worry started on this board he had e-mailed me to ask if I knew about the new requirements. I responded that I did and I asked him if he could get certificates for all of the Koi we will ship out of the region. He said YES and that he is looking forward to a good harvest with us. He will be able to provide the neccessary documents!!
On the US side I have been in contact with Dr. Varner's office. He is the APHIS certified vet that will handle all of the Koi entries in California. We have worked with Dr. Varner before trying to export Koi to Brazil, boy what a story that is. I found out that there will be more than one Vet working on this as I was told that Dr. McBride is who we need to talk to. I called Dr. McBride two days ago and left a message. He called me back when I was on the phone with someone else and I have not been able to reach him since. I will continue trying today as I think a few pointed questions as to procedure and testing, if any, required should put to rest any further worries all of you seem to have. At this point I feel very optimistic about the whole process. I think it will add time, money and worry to the whole equation, but I think Koi from Japan will be allowed in.
As far as the money goes, it should not add significant cost to the Koi either. For example, lets say I bring in 100 Nisai and the vet and documentation costs are $1,000.00. This will only increase the cost of each Koi by $10.00. I know any increase is not a good thing but this will not cause a huge price increase unless you get a greedy dealer that plays the supply and demand game.

Russ

[dizzyfish]

Russ,
I think some of the concern is about the overall impact it will have on the industry. Japanese koi may well be in the position to meet the new regulations. As much of a shock as this may be to some, the general buying public does not always start out buying expensive Japanese koi. Many get their feet wet on cheaper imports. Many of the manufactures of food, medications, liners, filters pumps, etc. rely on a vibrant, healthy industry to do sales volume. And while the direct cost of importing koi may not rise that much per fish, it could definitely cause supply and demand issues. Recently the long finned koi have been becoming more and more popular. Production of quality long fin from Japan is low. Many of the countries that have been producing beautiful "butterfly" may not have been as diligent as the excellent Japanese breeders. So if you take away a good portion of the gateway into the hobby fish, it is almost bound to hurt the industry as a whole. I noticed somewhere Joel B made the comment that he is confident that his business will be fine, but he is worried about the the industry overall. I am too, and I think maybe we should all be to some degree. Does this mean I think the sky is falling? No. But it might not hurt to write in with a few comments on how this might hurt the industry.
Mitch

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by dizzyfish Russ, I think some of the concern is about the overall impact it will have on the industry. Japanese koi may well be in the position to meet the new regulations. As much of a shock as this may be to some, the general buying public does not always start out buying expensive Japanese koi. Many get their feet wet on cheaper imports. Many of the manufactures of food, medications, liners, filters pumps, etc. rely on a vibrant, healthy industry to do sales volume. And while the direct cost of importing koi may not rise that much per fish, it could definitely cause supply and demand issues. Recently the long finned koi have been becoming more and more popular. Production of quality long fin from Japan is low. Many of the countries that have been producing beautiful "butterfly" may not have been as diligent as the excellent Japanese breeders. So if you take away a good portion of the gateway into the hobby fish, it is almost bound to hurt the industry as a whole. I noticed somewhere Joel B made the comment that he is confident that his business will be fine, but he is worried about the the industry overall. I am too, and I think maybe we should all be to some degree. Does this mean I think the sky is falling? No. But it might not hurt to write in with a few comments on how this might hurt the industry. Mitch

Hi Mitch,

I think you have brought up some very good points and I agree with you. There has been a lot of worry expressed here on the effect of Japanese imports as well and that was what I was concerned about reporting on. What I would hope is that it does not affect a lot of the reputable breeders in other parts of the world and if it does, they can stay alive long enough to follow through over the next two years. I also hope that this might give a boost to domestic producting. I know that cleaning house can be painfull but I think in this case it will do more good than harm.

Russ