The Importance of Motoguro

[koiczar]

MikeM

Taking another look at the motoguro, the pic of you (or whomever) holding the pec fin out shows the utsuri in this fish. A bekko wouldn't have that thicker base sumi as this one does. IMHO, the motoguro you're currently seeing is one that is in the process of receding and becoming true motoguro. Only time will tell, but again, I think it is linked to the hachiware as far as it's development is concerned.

Mike

[MikeM]

I'm not suggesting this is not Utsuri. She is definitely Utsuri. It's more the "feel" of the fish that I'm referring to. Kinda a nebulous concept.

[RayJordan]

Hi Mike,
As you know sanke and kohaku have been bred into modern showas which in turn have produced todays modern Shiro Utsuri. Shiro Utsuri have also been crossed with bekko's, Sankes and Showa's. In fact I have read that the best Omosako parent koi set contains a Showa.

I have seen some pretty interesting and expensive collector type koi that are hard to determine if Showa or Sanke and some that are hard to determine if shiro Utsuri or Shiro bekko. They might have great bodies, amazing skin, and deep strong color - but neither quite a real wrapping or a real dorsal pattern. More a blended or between pattern. Not really a classic show fish but can be stunning just the same.

[MikeM]

Ray, those are useful points. One of the main "problems" with Shiro Utsuri is, of course, the body shape. Even on fine examples there is a weakness in the tail area. It is a conformation issue usually seen in the Gosanke only in lower grade fish. If there were purpose-bred Shiro Bekko lines with the Sanke body, there would be some crosses to make to improve the Shiro Utsuri body without introducing red genes. But since there isn't, the Shiro Utsuri breeders have quite the challenge. One of the things that always stands out to my eye is how few Gosanke have bright whites when a Shiro is in the tank with them. The Shiro Utsuri is so white that the creamy white that is considered best for Kohaku is made to look a tad too yellowish. But while the breeders have gotten the maximum black/white contrast, they are a long way from having strong bodies. Maybe Omosako keeps some Showa in the mix for that reason? ....Knew there had to be a valuable use for Showa with a fading Hi gene! I think I need to go read my old K-B again.

[johnsmith]

Some great answers here especially by Ray who rightly identifies sanke/showa links. We in the US got overly hung up with details of showa pattern ( yes motoguro is part of pattern) because we were just in the learning stages of koi appreciation and pattern was the anchor for us. Indeed it was the anchor for breeders way back when they were being made. But showa sumi is mostly poor quality sumi, especially when compared to sanke sumi. But as a culling trait, the babies with black fins were kept as were the ones with black mouths as it was believed that this was preserving the deeper black color in adult hood.
I hate to be a broken ZNA record on this subject but every serious koi student needs to know the foundation concept of koi- black or white based and also the four types of pattern found on all varieties.
Showa is a black based, wrapped pattern fish. Sanke is a white based, dorsal patterned fish. Today, the high end showa is crossed extensively with kohaku and sanke- to get size, better beni and better sumi. So motoguro becomes more important in one sense ( Reveals lineage ) and less important in another ( showa is not really the same animal anymore and close to becoming white based).
As a ‘show trait’ however, there is nothing more attractive that a showa with three colors on the face and excellent symmetrical deep motoguro. So as a look it is usually very helpful in winning, just no longer mandatory.
JR

[l113892]

Here is an Omosako shiro. First picture was as purchased and the second picture was just six months later. The sumi is really coming around and the motoguro is pulling in. I may end up with just a bit in the base of the pec. The fish is sansai.

[MikeM]

MikeP: A very nice, strong body. The progress is real. If the motoguro consolidates I think you will have a very impressive fish. I think small, tight motoguro looks really good myself.

JR: As you well know, the problem with improving one's appreciation of koi is that there ends up being so many more things to balance ... the quality of the fish (i.e., in the sense of show "standards"), the personal appeal of the fish (as Dick says, it will be in your pond a lot more than the show tank), and the cost (not just affordability a/k/a wallet size, but also the psyche factor that no fish should cost so much!). So, the more one learns and comes to appreciate finer aspects of koi, the harder it becomes to be happy with a selection. High quality with a knock-out pattern will be sure to blow the cost comfort zone. So, something less on quality becomes acceptable to get the personally appealing pattern one can enjoy a long time, or to get the highest quality one accepts a pattern/look that is unimpressive, or you go for broke and just cross your fingers that there is no little tumor cell lurking under the surface. Dumb and happy sometimes looks pretty good.

The Shiro I started this thread with is one that I think could have a number of folks teetering on the fence (assuming cost is within their personal comfort zone). It has good quality sumi, although not likely the very best; an acceptable body, although too lean for some tastes; a balanced distribution of sumi, although the pattern does not give the bold strength of ichimatsu; etc., etc. No one characteristic is overwhelmingly positive, but the total package is fairly good (IMO)and could become pretty impressive. But, like KoiCop commented, without full-fan motoguro it has an incomplete look. And, like Koiczar commented, she would be a pleasure to watch develop.

[MikeM]

Rob: For you...A pic of the Shiro from when she arrived. Yep. I caved and got her despite the lack of proper motoguro. Everything else about her appealed to me. She is Omosako-bred and was imported for me by Kevin Pham at Genki Koi. I'm very pleased with her so far, although she is a bit timid.

[Sangreaal]

Mike, I would have caved too. She's lovely!

Marie

[Brutuscz]

This is a pretty good before and after photo set. This is my Marusho Shiro Utsuri. What makes this so dramatic is the time line. The picture on the left was taken only 3 months before the one on the right. You can see the motoguro developing very well.