Should Kohaku and Shiro Utsuri be housed together?

[dizzyfish]

So what do you think? Should high quality Kohaku and high quality Shiro Utsuri be kept in the same pond? The answer while logical, may be surprising to some. So I would like to hear what your thoughts are, along with your rationale.
Mitch

[johnsmith]

SURE! why not?

If the rational is based on FINISHING of koi Vs. housing of koi, then you might have a point in your question. But today's good stock is all fine together and best kept in 68- 78 F water, maximum oxygen saturation levels, soft water ( under 100) and neutral to slightly alkaline pH ( 7.0- 7.5). If they get good food in addition to this and low stocking rates then any variety can be housed with any other variety. In other words, its all about genetics in the right water.

Shiro are not known to be aggressive feeders and kohaku ARE so there is some consideration there, but this can be overcome with auto feeders or select hand feeding.

JR

[dizzyfish]

JR,
That is good rationale however, it is not exactly what I was looking for. I hope some others offer their opinion before I explain further.
Mitch

[aquitori]

Have to agree with JR, it all depends on finishing or conditioning your fish..But I dont see why not.

[l113892]

I agree with Jim. With good genetics- a kohaku AND a shiro utsuri can both look good in the same pond, especially when the water cools. Mitch, where are you located? Jim- why would you suppose that the shiro utsuri is not an aggressive feeder by nature? I purchased a 19 inch nisai this year. Initially, was very aggressive at feeding time but now she plucks a pellet at a time.

[dizzyfish]

Hi Mike,
I'm right down the interstate in Bowling Green. I actually met you at the Louisville show. No one has yet figured out what I'm getting at. Let me add that your goal is to enter both the Kohaku and the Shiro Utsuri into shows. Now what is the answer?
Mitch

[johnsmith]

I hope you're not talking about color food? JR

[dizzyfish]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnsmith I hope you're not talking about color food? JR

Bingo. And since you figured it out you can do the honors and explain the rationale. If it is wrong please explain why as well.
Mitch

[KoiCop]

after you 'splain' it to him, ya might wanna send 'em a copy of your curriculum vitae.

[johnsmith]

Sure , no problem Dizzy.

Koi are unique in that they can 'process' color in their cells from the food they eat.
In lower quality fish, the color layer of cells is shallow. It coats as one layer and is often intensified by massive amounts of color food additives. This is what is done normally with tateshita ( or low grade pond fish) to make them brighter in color and therefore more marketable.

In high class show fish, the genetics is 'hungry' for color. This is because the color cells are very numerous and located in several levels of the skin. They will take any nutrition and turn it to color as there DNA demands it! And it is the layers of color cells that gives the impression of thickness and intensity- not the shade or deepness of any one layer.

The problems of color food occur when low class koi are fed excessive amounts of color food. In these cases, the white become stained. I think Dizzy is suggesting that the beni of kohaku benefits from color food but the shiro on shiro utsuri suffers.
Maybe so. But honestly, low class is low class. And I have judged both pink kohaku and shiro with yellow skin and niban hi markings.

In 2006, both high class kohaku and high class shiro need very little color food. The genetics is in place to assure the depth and intensity of color via a normal well balanced diet.
JR