Flashing

[rockman]

I have noticed one of my fish exhibit some flashing behavior for a coupel of days, and now I noticed two other fish flash at least once or twice. By flashing I mean the fish are turning on their side on the same spot on the bottom of the pond (actaully on the top of a filter box that is on the bottom of the pond). The fish seems to flash every min or so for several minutes, then seems to stop. Sometimes I would go over to check and the fish didnt flash at all while I watched, and other times I did see him flash.

What frequencing of flashing is normal?

I checked and the water quality seems ok (pH 7.2, ammonia and nitrate between 0 and 0.25 ppm).

I am wondering if I might have a parasite?

I just did a 10% water change, and I watched for about 10 min, didn't see any flashing just now.

I was looking into some possible treatments for the pond, I was wondering if anyone has experience with Fizz tabs parasite treatment? I picked some up, but haven't used it (thought this might be something good to have anyway). Does anyone have any experience with this (or another similar) product? Would this treament affect my biological filter?

[jnorth]

Hi Rockman can you tell us more about your pond? How many gallons? What type of filtration? How many fish? If you are reading ammonia and nitrites in an established system then that might be the cayse of the flashing. The filter box on the bottom of your pond that the koi are flashing against..does it have any sharp edges? That might be why your koi are getting scraped up.

[Tamianth]

Water temp? Well or tap? And I would like to see both a GH & KH reading also.

Rocman, sometimes different parasites need different meds to treat and you may need to order what you need. But before you do, lets rule out things first.

Fish do get a itch now and again, but when it is consistant and excessive then its time to look at things and it alway's begins with water quality... PH fluctuations can cause itchy fish, as can parasites. So lets look to the water and start from there! What does the source (tap or well) test out for in PH,KH,GH, nitrite,ammonia, nitrates? This is the baseline reading. Test the Ph early morning, late afternoon and sometime around dark 30..

Reading the heron thread, your ph had dropped to 6.8? and you raised it back up to 7.(2?) something there right?

Your also showing readings that can be because the ph dropped... The bio bugs in the filters like a good ph/kh, they also use the calcium and magnesium like fish and plants do.

Whats the ingrediants in the fizz tabs?

[rockman]

Quote: Originally Posted by jnorth Hi Rockman can you tell us more about your pond? How many gallons? What type of filtration? How many fish? If you are reading ammonia and nitrites in an established system then that might be the cayse of the flashing. The filter box on the bottom of your pond that the koi are flashing against..does it have any sharp edges? That might be why your koi are getting scraped up.

The pond is about 2000 gal and I have about 12 fish (I know, that is too many, but half are realtively small, say about 6 inches, the others range from about 8 to 20 inches). I need to purge a few fish (perhaps my local heron will help!)

My ammonia and nitrate are usually reading zero, a few times it has increased slightly, say to 0.25 ppm, but I never noticed this flashing before.

I was just watching my fish for a while, and didn't see any flashing just now.

Good question abut the filter box, but it does not look at have any sharp edges. The three fish I recently had with head scrapes are not flashing (and I don't think I ever saw them flash). So I don't think this is related.

[rockman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tamianth Water temp? Well or tap? And I would like to see both a GH & KH reading also. Rocman, sometimes different parasites need different meds to treat and you may need to order what you need. But before you do, lets rule out things first. Fish do get a itch now and again, but when it is consistant and excessive then its time to look at things and it alway's begins with water quality... PH fluctuations can cause itchy fish, as can parasites. So lets look to the water and start from there! What does the source (tap or well) test out for in PH,KH,GH, nitrite,ammonia, nitrates? This is the baseline reading. Test the Ph early morning, late afternoon and sometime around dark 30.. Reading the heron thread, your ph had dropped to 6.8? and you raised it back up to 7.(2?) something there right? Your also showing readings that can be because the ph dropped... The bio bugs in the filters like a good ph/kh, they also use the calcium and magnesium like fish and plants do. Whats the ingrediants in the fizz tabs?

My pond water hardness is about 75, my KH is about 40 (which I know is low). The temperature has been a stead 69-71 F for the last couple of weeks (I installed a heater).

The pH is about 7, I was tryingt to keep it higher, but it has steadily dropped over the last several weeks., still pretty close to 7.

Here is more info on the fizz tabs...

metronidazole, praziquantel, trichlorfon, diflubenzuron.

And here is a link to their web site...

http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=PT504

[koiczar]

Rockman

Sounds like MAYBE some of your problems are water quality related. Your GH at 75 and your KH at 40 are WAY TOO LOW. KH is your calcium carbonate levels and this level creates a problem for PH stability. Sounds like you could be a good candidate for using Lithaqua. You place it (in bags) in your bio filter and it increases the calcium carbonate and alkalinity of your pond. This in turn will (should) stabilize your PH. I don't know if this will stop the flashing but it sure can't hurt.

Mike

[rockman]

Mike,

Thanks, I will check it out.

I have a 5 lb bag of oyster shells on the top of the waterfall filter, this has raised my KH, but not enough.

[Tamianth]

Hold those tabs until you get the water numbers up and we see how the fish do. Alternativly Calcium Chloride, also called snow melt.. found at Home Dept or even a pool supply, but the HD is going to be cheaper or a feed store. Epsome Salt is your magnesium. Equal parts. This will bring up the GH, Plain ol Baking soda (not powder) for the KH. The problem with Oyster shell is that the ph actually has to fall below the 7.0 before it begins to dissolve. Longer term you might want to look into something like Limestone chips.

I have no problems with the ingrediants except the trichlor, its a bit touchy to PH & water temp, 75* and 7.5 up. Prazi covers fluke, diflubenzuron aka Dimlin, covers fish lice and Anchor worm, Metronidazole will cover a few other things, hexamita, intestinal worms. If fish lice and anchor worm where involved, you'd be seeing those, the rest are scrape and scope with a partial exception to ick, sometimes seen, sometimes not.

You do not want to raise those numbers too fast, no more then 2 dh a day.

[Russell Peters]

You should not use any medication in your pond unless you know what you are treating. You should scope your fish and see if they have anything. It may just be your water quality parameters.

[rockman]

thanks for the comments folks...i am definitely not rushing into any treatments yet.

In fact, after last night, I made about a 10% water change, added a little sodium bicarboante, and I didnt see a single flashing from any fish this morning or this evening. I checked and both ammonium and nitrate are going down, almost back to zero, just a little spike and this has happened a few times.

I will keep monitoring, but I am thinking now it might have been the water quality. I am glad I posted this and didnt rush into any treatment and I appreciate the experince of those who have responded.