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Old 10-04-2006   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bob Winkler View Post
at the beginning, grasshoppa
I fear that makes my brain spin around even more....,wheres the beggining....

Teach me Sensei..
Bob and Dick you have helped me understand the Huge and ever growing world of Koi.
Benkyotai sensei
Please teach me teacher.
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Old 10-04-2006   #12 (permalink)
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Notes???? Hmm I need to take notes, but where to start????????

I somehow agree alot, and somehow I dont. I believe it is possible to venture in different areas where sakai is not, but where is he not???

I do agree that no one can really ever know what this man knows. But I think its the fact that really no one really knows what he knows and does not know, so no one can actually know if they know something that he doesnt know.

but who exactly am I again???

I think its hard to understand that, my brain hurts..


Can you teach me as an extention of sakai-san??? I want to learn as much as my 95% empty brain can hold, since we only use like..what 5%???

I want to learn as much as I can about showa, no everything, but start out at showa.
They have always fascinated me.

Sigh...

Sumimasen. I was tempted to just say the old cliche of "Koi Keeping Begins and ends with Kohaku...", but that was almost not even funny. On second thought, Kohaku IS the beginning. Showa are also my favorite, but the lessons to learn are much more difficult and are built upon "earlier lessons". But possibly more rewarding. Walk b4 you run, though. If you get the joke, you have already made some progress.

I am no sensei, no "extension" or substitute for Mr Sakai, or even have 1% of the knowledge of the "Challenger". I am but just a student. As are we all. I firmly believe even Mr Sakai himself might say he was a student of koi.

Dick and I have been listening and learning from Mr Sakai for years. While your statement about what he knows and does not has a certain "Western" logic and could have been said "tongue in cheek", please step much more carefully of what you do not know. It would be easy for some to dismiss what I just wrote, but may I humbly suggest you do not.

You have some good questions, and I am happy to help if I can. BUT.... I have a few suggestions that may prove somewhat useful in your journey. Some of these you may already be doing, have done, or planned to do, or not been aware of. Definately in a Particular order.

1) Read. What books, magazines and videos do you have in your koi library? Good starting places..Koi Kichi 1 and 2, NI Magazine, The New Vision Video series, This and other BBS and web sites, Koi Fixx, and many others.
2) Join a Koi Club in your area such as Camellia or NorCal ZNA... You may, and probably are, already a member.
3) Find a true Sensei. I am happy and honored to help as much as I can, but there is no substitute for a 1 on 1, in person, discussion and viewing of good and great koi. In Northern California where you are there is no shortage of wonderful koi people who can fill this role, and likely would be willing. Many were at the show this past weekend. All you have to do is ask, and be a good student.
4) Keep going to Koi Shows, preferably ones where your Sensei can discuss koi with you. Show your koi. I learned much faster when it was about my own koi.... Sometimes the unclear lessons become clear later when you have had time to reflect and study the koi you were talking about. Work on the Show Committee and during the shows. You never know when the gem will come to you and from whom. Attitude of Gratitude. This will make more sense the further in you get into this hobby, or in life for that matter.
5) Go to Japan for koi. A class requirement for graduation. One good koi friend and world class koi keeper once said to me during a trip to Japan that he "wouldn't let anyone who had been to Japan for koi less than 5 times judge his koi." Perhaps a bit extreme for some, but such is the esteem with which those who have made that journey to "Mecca"are often held. But the important thing is what you learn by going. Multiple trips magnify that learning exponentially, not linearly.
6) A wise person (one of my sensei) once said to me; "The moment you think you know everything about koi, this hobby humbles you". Don't forget this one most of all. These words will ring true inside you when that time comes to you, as it unfortunately does to most, if not all, of us. Sometimes more than once. In the meantime, don't get completely comfortable and "locked in "with what you learn. Keep an open and vigilent mind.

I hope this did not come across as patronizing or condescending. It certainly is not meant that way.

Keep your enthusiasm and keep having fun. That is a big reason I broke from what I usually do with my posts and responded more fully to your questions. Never lose that wide eyed funand thirst for learning. Stay away from those who would take it from you, as unfortunately many will.

This is a wonderful and addicting hobby that creates an inner peace for many in it. One of the things I believe that can make a lifetime well spent. Dō itashi mashite
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Old 10-04-2006   #13 (permalink)
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One wise thing, lil'dude....Buy some fish, ask who the breeder is, watch how they grow...that will be a jumping of point for you. Dont make things too confusing for yourself.

Bob Winkler would be a good sensei on the board, but in person Erwin who visit Russ on a weekly basis would make for a great mentor. He is mentored by one of the judges at the show and that is Larry Gill....
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Old 10-04-2006   #14 (permalink)
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Talking So much to learn lil'dude

I've never met the man, but I've known many masters of many things. What they all have in common is the wisdom to continue growing. Your beginning is where you are and your ending has no end.
Your rhetorical "how much" question is actually a good one. If you took the combined knowledge of every member of this forum you might be able to write someone like him a respectable introduction... and nothing more. When you consider the vast knowledge and experience contained here, that is really saying something. Knowledge like his was passed to him from his elders, and then built upon. As much as he knows today, he is still a work in progress just as his finest tategoi... and so lil'dude, are you.
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Old 10-04-2006   #15 (permalink)
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One wise thing, lil'dude....Buy some fish, ask who the breeder is, watch how they grow...that will be a jumping of point for you. Dont make things too confusing for yourself.

Bob Winkler would be a good sensei on the board, but in person Erwin who visit Russ on a weekly basis would make for a great mentor. He is mentored by one of the judges at the show and that is Larry Gill....

I would have to 2nd that.. Bob Winkler, would be one of the best internet sensei,but having someone 1on1 is priceless. Erwin as Aquitori mentioned would be a great sensei... He has been very helpfull to us Socal koi clubs. He has a vast amount of knowledge, on koi husbandry and health, and a great eye. And the track record to prove it.

Last edited by Nancy M.; 10-04-2006 at 08:39 AM. Reason: forgot something
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Old 10-05-2006   #16 (permalink)
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Ok here it goes.

I was not patronized at all, and if i was it would only make me a bad koi student.
All Sensei can call me Lil'dude-Kun.
Kun is used for ones status is lower than theirs. Teachers use kun to adress that you are a student.
I can understand why kohaku begins in the koi "Passion", the kohaku introduces 2 colors in the gosanke family, Shiro or Haku ( however you want to say it, and Hi or Beni ( How ever you want to say it). Then I would think sanke would be next, introducing the Sumi, then utsuri which emphasizes on the patter in which showa is made from. Since it looks like the showa is an utsuri and a Kohaku mized. Then I would think would be bekko.

I dont really know what I am talking about but, I guess this guessing is making me understand where I need to start..

Man I want to work for a koi business in the future.
but where???? I could learn a whole lot at so many places.
but i think I am getting way over my head just planning everything out right now.

So I should start with the kohaku. You all reccomend books that are really expensive..... .
How can I learn when I dont have any money...
I guess here, but thats ok. I think interacting with a person is far better than any book..somewhat.

In exchange for the teaching of koi, I would be habby to teach anyone who desires to learn Japanese, afterall japanese is a very important skill in the koi and business world.

I am so happy and thankful that all of you are smuthering me with help and knowledge. I can never say how grateful I am that you are helping me.

I dont understand a lot of what you all see in me, but all I know is that somehow I have this feeling that my life is about koi and I have already dedicated my life to it. Just to think it all started with a simple decision...christmas."dad I want to have a koi pond for christmas"
Wow I never Imagined that..that one litte request could change my life entirely.
I would have never met kari, dick, bob, carolina girl, stephen and so much more....

Thank you so much!!!!!
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Old 10-05-2006   #17 (permalink)
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So where is a good place on this forum to learn about kohaku????
I would think KOi-bito is the best forum out their since its an extension of KOi-bito magazine.
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Old 10-05-2006   #18 (permalink)
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Ok... Now you can have a plan that costs.....nothing.... Slow down and Breathe... and know that this will be a fun trip
1) Hang out the koi dealer of your choice... To name only 1 or 3 in the bay area would automatically eliminate some good ones that might be a fit for you.. So find a good one you are comfortable with. Better still if your chosen "sensei" is there already, or likes that dealer. Borrow the books from your sensei, or at the koi dealer....if you start working there. I loan mine out all the time.

Where to learn about Kohaku? Everywhere lil'dude .. This web site is a good one. Other such as, Gasp , Koiphen and Koi Shack have categories for some of these things in their archives.. go read up there too....Also you can start a thread or two here and ask for people to help with their ideas and posting... Often alot of people will and have posted pictures of their own koi.

Don't worry so much about "doing it just right" that it paralyzes you into inaction. Just do it.
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Old 10-05-2006   #19 (permalink)
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Ok... Now you can have a plan that costs.....nothing.... Slow down and Breathe... and know that this will be a fun trip
1) Hang out the koi dealer of your choice... To name only 1 or 3 in the bay area would automatically eliminate some good ones that might be a fit for you.. So find a good one you are comfortable with. Better still if your chosen "sensei" is there already, or likes that dealer. Borrow the books from your sensei, or at the koi dealer....if you start working there. I loan mine out all the time.

Where to learn about Kohaku? Everywhere lil'dude .. This web site is a good one. Other such as, Gasp , Koiphen and Koi Shack have categories for some of these things in their archives.. go read up there too....Also you can start a thread or two here and ask for people to help with their ideas and posting... Often alot of people will and have posted pictures of their own koi.

Don't worry so much about "doing it just right" that it paralyzes you into inaction. Just do it.
I am super comfortable with kari and russel, but I hate requesting things, It makes me feel rude.

I would love you to teach me bob, I really would be honored.

Right now I am looking at momotaro koi and Sakai koi, trying to find out why they are so much money.
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Old 10-05-2006   #20 (permalink)
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I am super comfortable with kari and russel, but I hate requesting things, It makes me feel rude.

I would love you to teach me bob, I really would be honored.

One thing to read and there is another to have that "Eyes on approach"...Meaning, reading and applying is a whole different thing...It took me years to read all the books, then applying what I read was even harder. Aline yourself with people who have the knowledge in your area.

I have talked to many new beginniers that I have come across at the shops and talked koi...but to a certain extent I find myself holding back alot more because they dont have the basics down. Learn the Basics first!!! Learn the different varities, then so and so on...
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