Learning Nishikigoi

[lildude]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bob Winkler Good start on answers..... if you please, add some more of the particulars from the fllowing list... pH, kH, GH, pond "style"... type and amount of aeration, amount of flow through the filter and other? (waterfall, etc...looking for the "pond turnover") dimensions L times width times depth, in full sunlight or no?, plants?.. number and size of koi... second...sounds like a nice size pond is in the plans...when to start/finish? what will that planned pond consist of? same questions as above... Here is an simple article to go a little further on your kohaku class, but directly to the point on Selecting a Kohaku. Selecting a Young Kohaku By Bob Winkler, AKCA Judge (rswinkler@aol.com), with credit to Dr. Art Lembke (head of the AKCA judging committee.). I will keep this short and sweet, to be efficient. This could be much longer and if you have questions, please feel free to ask me, or one of the “senior” club members for more clarification. It has been often said in this hobby that “koi keeping begins and ends with Kohaku”. This is so true, as it is the basis for other varieties. It is the most important fish if you are looking for a future Grand Champion. We will assume for this series of articles that we have all good conformation (body shape) on healthy koi, with no deformities, or disease. Good conformation, put simply, means not too skinny or not too fat. Koi that are broad at the shoulders, have a large skull, and relatively large pectoral fins have a chance to grow larger. There are of course exceptions to these “rules”. Think balance of pattern and skin quality when looking at any koi. The skin quality is easier to see on larger koi than 12”, so we will concentrate on balance. This means when you look at the koi from the top, the red area is evenly placed over the body. Look at the head and tail areas for “white tips”. It is preferable to have red on the head (i.e., don’t buy a Kohaku with an all white head) and to have it come down midway between the eyes. It can touch one eye, but preferably not both. The head is one of the most important parts in an early koi. For the body, the red should be balanced and cover about 70% of the koi. This is so that as the koi grows, it will “grow into its coat”. Young Kohaku patterns have been likened to a kid wearing their father’s coat. It looks big now, but they will grow into it. The red on the body can be anything interesting or “eye catching” and personally I like koi that have some white “breaks” between the red areas. All red on the body should be in large patches, with no single scale red areas. The white should be “snow white”, but can be pinkish if they were fed color food. Avoid Kohaku with a “grayish white”. The red can be either bright red or orange red, but look for a very “solid” red. Meaning it should look like several thick layers of paint. Make sure there are no red or black marks on the fins. This should help you in picking out your future grand champion, or just a pretty “living jewel” that you can enjoy in your pond for years to come. and just to boggle your mind a bit more, here are a couple pictures of some friends of mine's ponds... just to show a close to perfect koi pond and water might look like...You may have seen these pictures b4...First is Tom Lansing's in Phoenix, with one of my favorite all time koi pond photos, and also of the infamous Thom Blischok's pond and his nearly, if not perfect, water. Pictures taken by Nigel Caddock of NI Magazine. And a picture of our "Diamond", who unfortunately succumbed to copper poisoning this past year.

Good Morning!
I am sorry to hear that your Diamond died!!!!!

Well I am going to answer most if not all of your questions. My current pond gets about 3/4 of the day of sunlight and the 1/4 of shade.
My pond is Heavily Planted. The stocking level is somewhat High, and I am going to cut down this coming weekend(when I am at my dads).
Probably way to high to be safe in the near future. The Dimensions of my pond is 6' x 8' x 3.5'


Ahhh the bell just rang!!!!!!
Ill get back to you on this.

[lildude]

Why is that there is so many filtration systems on that pond, I would think that there isnt enough Biological matter to run those biofilters.
That is what Confuses me, I Always wonder if they are going overboard or not.


My new 6000 gallon pond is gonna be pretty cool

Info as follows

Dimension 21' x 14' x 3.5'-4'
Gallonage: 6000 + American Gallons
Bottom Drain: yes
Filtration: Ultima 6000; Biological/mech filter: Bog
TPR's: YES! 2 Eductors
Skimmer: savio Large skimmer
UV:Yes but Will be added later!
External Pump- Unknown, want to find one that doesnt cost alot, but is reliable.

[Bob Winkler]

you are somewhat refreshing with your questions, grasshoppa. You keep asking the $64,000 questions. I am going to start answering some of your questions directly, even though at times I believe you truely may not be "ready" for the answer. I do not that mean that in a bad, or mean way.

Overboard with the filtration? Maybe yes, maybe no. Depends on your point of view and the information one posesses about the system. I will answer this question with questions. (BTW, Before asking questions, I find it helpful to come up with a possible answer or two myself. I make my employees do the same when they come to me with a problem. They must bring two possible, workable solutions. I respectfully ask you do the same. I think if you put your mind through that exercise, some answers will be clear to you without asking the question.) The questions I would ask you to considering whether this is too much filtration or not (in any instance you wonder this) are: Do you know what the bio load is? What size, type, value of the koi housed? How many pond(s) and the volume? The experience of the keeper? Less experienced koi keepers with less valuable fish often have less filtration and more fish per gallon than the more experienced. This is not a coincidence. But one guess as to who has less problems. Who has plants in their pond? Who has gravel in the bottom of the pond? Who quarantines their koi? Who has been where you are? Less or more experienced? The answer is hopefully obvious.

BUT.. is what Thom does necessary to keep koi well? The cliff notes answer to that is no. I know of only one or two other keepers worldwide who have anything even approaching his system. Most people would probably say his system is way "over the top". But it is cool to look at, and beautiful in it's way. The amount of maintainance required is the primary difference. If you want to do less, you need more filtration and less koi. Currently I turn a valve once a week for 3 minutes and I am done with my maintainance, other than adding some minerals to the water and feeding the koi. I used to spend several to many hours per week.

You say you are overstocked. Good to know. Most people would say they are overstocked, but don't do enough or anything about it. What are you stocked at? How many and how big? Slowly the answers come from you.

[lildude]

Ehhh.....Way to overstocked! About 10 Goldfish about the size between 5"-7"
Way to many goldfish for me already, There should be 0

I have about 10 koi, 2 in a fish tank
all koi are about 4"-13"

A bioload I believe is how much Living things are in the pond, Usually koi, Microscopic bugs, water beetles, and dragonfly larvae in our case. A 4" koi would deal out a much smaller Bioload than a 13" koi and definetly a 36" koi. I am not sure if plants would be considered a bioload or not. I guess they could be when they die and rot in the water, but I do pruning every so often.

I can see you are still seeing where I am, and I want to let you know I will not be offended by anything you say to me, Watashi wa anata no Seito desu. (I am your student.) Watashi wa sensei no anata ga arimasen. ( I am not your teacher.)

I am sorry that I keep asking those million dollar questions!!!! I just can’t help it.


You know the way the koi gets their color, like through some of the chemicals like Adenine, Thymine, Guanine, and so much more. Is that how we get our color like our EYE Color as well as other animals such as fish.
That explains why fish need Both the Herbivorous side of the diet as well as the Carnivorous side. They must balance their diet to be healthy. They must get both of the Animal and Plant Proteins to make their Color Glisten in the Afternoon sun.



Bell rang gotta go!!!

[Bob Winkler]

Good to know you're getting rid of the waste of O2 goldfish JK. Even without the goldfish, you are probably aware you are still overstocked in the 1000 galons, but it is not undoable in a pinch. Currently in my own temp 1200 gallon qpond, I have 11 koi frm 6" to 24" and they are doing great. Today. But I change about 25% of water a week, and for filtration I have a Nexus 3000 with easy, 1.0 CC Bubble bead, 40 watt UV, Heater, Battery Backup, and a 3 tier Bakki Shower with BH Media and Crushed Coral Shells. Pushing that is a 1/4 HP Sequence pump running about 2500 GPH. Meaning a 2 times per hour turnover. Does this make it overfiltered? I have the occasional worry about pH crash, but other than that, no hiccups (crosses fingers). Not where I want to be, nor will I be by next summer, but for now, a necessity. It seems you are in the same position. The margin for error is very narrow, and I have been torched in the recent past. (see # 6 of things to remember). Lack of O2 and Copper still kill fish no matter who you are.

My point was not to talk about me, just that it is possible. You should know also that the smallest and largest koi can be the most difficult to care for and improve. Little fish like the 4" ones die easily, and the large ones have their own issues.

Addressing a couple things from your last posts. Plants add to the bio load and overall maintainance needs of ponds. Period. No amount of pruning will change that, but if you insist on having them as a part of your system, I suggest using the type of substrate that is dirt free. It is a type of foam, but I am unsure of the brand. And keep it seperate from the koi. Again, not a hard, unbreakable rule, just a matter of how much maintainance you want to do. I tend to like the easier way, rather than making things more difficult. I have included a picture of Ray Armstrong's pond that combines both things. Many have already seen the pictures of his pond here in Colorado Springs.

Rather than go to advanced levels like how color is formed, etc, it would be better to go over the info already offered on Kohaku and beni, and work from that. If the kohaku selection is too basic, then the next level would be conformation and care. And then the beni and skin quality. Obviously different subjects. The last two subjects alone would probably take several on site or Japan visits and a fair amount of study for some lights to be "going on". And even then we still learn. Every advanced koi keeper I know says that.

So please ask your questions in the order asked for. If you would like to skip a "level" please paraphrase for me the lessons learned from the info given so that I know we can move forward. Ouch, that sounded elitest. But I don't want to waste either of our time. This can also be done by email if you prefer.

[BobinCA]

[quote=Bob Winkler;62914] . Plants add to the bio load. Period. No amount of pruning will change that, but if you insist on having them as a part of your system, I suggest using the type of substrate that is dirt free. It is a type of foam, but I am unsure of the brand.

Bob,

Can you elaborate more on the foam substrate product for plants in a separate bog situation?

(Not meaning to hijack thread)

Thanks,

Bob A

[Bob Winkler]

Hi Bob,

Not at all.. I will call Ray and ask for more particulars. He told me once, and I have seen it b4, but then my oldtimers set in and erased it from my memory

[Bob Winkler]

I called Ray, and the foam he uses is available from Charleston Aquatic Plants in SC. It is actually two layers of foam (one heavy and one lighter in weight/density) about 2" thick each, and they float. Very expensive he says. He is working on more details for me, and I was not able to find a phone # for them. We are getting together later this week to talk about a pond he is designing for a fellow Rocky Mountain Koi Club member, and he will have the details and # then for me since he has the catalog at home. He cuts it to fit the pot or area he sets it in, and then a circle in it to place the plant. He said his plants went nuts as soon this year (the first year he has used it) and grew incredibly. that is saying alot, as he always has had good growth with his plants.

[dick benbow]

Some lessons are best learned by personal experience. Over the decades i have learned that I want nothing in my koi ponds in the way of plants or dirt.

Been a fun thread.....thanks Bob W for helping to make a difference...as a firm believer in what goes around comes around...nice to see reward on both ends....

[lildude]

I think that all should benefit from us conversing like this.




Well, I dont know if we should move ahead, I think we could. but you are my sensei, so that is your decision