Can a hobbyist go straight to Japan to buy fish without a broker or dealer?

[Bern]

Sorry, I meant to include these pics.

[lildude]

Just tag along with your dealer to purchase fish when they go, isnt that what a whole lot of people do anyways?

[koiczar]

Quote: Originally Posted by lilhelper Just tag along with your dealer to purchase fish when they go, isnt that what a whole lot of people do anyways?

Yes, if the dealer will take you with them. Most dealers are not going to take a hobbyist who is only interested in spending a few hundred to a thousand dollars. It's simply not worth their time. They're there to buy fish for their business first. Hobbyists "tagging along", so to speak, is simply costing the dealer too much of his valuable buying time. But, most dealers use an agent to take them to breeders. The average dealer doesn't have the connections and logistical ability to do it on their own.

Antonio,

Dinh has a very valid point, in that talking about shipping is an all important question that is usually asked "immediately" upon arriving at a breeder's facility. If you don't have a way to ship the fish, they usually won't even bother with you.

[aquitori]

I am sure if the hobbyist wanted to go in with a dealer to ship the fish it can be done right?

[Lee]

Bern,

You know that wasn't answer to the question. But, they're nice photos anyway.

For certain you weren't having a meal at the home of a Japanese koi breeder who you hadn't known before, or that someone in your group knew from a prior trip, so why answer so glibly that you can do it on your own...when you know you don't walk up to some breeder and invite yourself to his table for a meal.

It just doesn't happen.

The other photos of the ponds, etc...I supposed you were invited to the Ikeage, or you just somehow came upon it, by accident...

Or, perhaps, again, either you or someone with you has had a long standing relationship with the breeder and invited you to attend his ikeage.

And, how did you receive the pass to get throught the construction sites to get to those breeders and the ponds...did it just fly into your front window screen?

Perhaps, by magic?

The man who asked the quesion asked a sincere question, your reply was self serving to prove what point?

..that you don't need someone to take you around, and that you can do it all on your own, first time, never having been there before, and be received/welcomed and treated in the manner you indicate, without having had someone at some time open the doors that made these occassions possible.

Be nice now.

Otherwise, your reply adds more confusion to the gentlemen who asked a rather sensible question to what could be a difficult problem.

Yeah, I can just imagine you going through the JR station in Tokyo without some advice or help or buddy along side you getting you through that maze on your own...or, knowing what hotel to stay at, or what trains to take, or where to hire a car, or even where and how to find Nomole's...without someone guiding the way.

So, in answering the qustion, for a newbie needing good advice, blowing your own horn, doesn't help him.

He was obviously asking for help. And, good advice. And, your need to show how great you were without having a dealer or agent with you, didn't prove much to me.

I still don't believe anyone could do that trip without someone along to open the doors, show the way, and accomplish the goal he was "actually" seeking an answer for....

Lee
Grand Cayman

[Bern]

Hi Lee,

I never for one moment said I was on this trip. I was just reporting on it. I had planned to go but personal circumstances prevented me.

Sure, several people on it had been before and therefore had the contacts. But it was a trip organised by hobbyists. Cars, flights, hotels, visits to breeders, etc etc all arranged by them. Participation in a (singular) harvest was pre-arranged, as were some visits. The rest, along with the invites for lunch, dinner, banquets etc came as complete surprises. Several breeders were very happy to meet their end-customer face to face.

True, they had made their contacts through various dealers over the years, but then in the UK our first contact with the Niigata breeders was intially made by hobbyists, one of whom went on to become probably the most famous dealer of them all. So it's just a case of coming full circle.

As they say "Nothing ventured, nothing gained".

rgds
BERN

[Danjols]

It is all about relationships.

You have a great dealer that will take the time and effort to introduce you to the hobby, nuture and guide you along you should remain loyal to you're dealer. On the other hand, if you decide you're seeking a special realationship with a breeder and you find a comfort zone dealing direct, follow you're instincts. It all comes down to realationships and trust, what ever works best for you.

We have imported koi from Japan now for several years, direct. The relationships developed directly from our breeder has been very rewarding along with knowledge gained. If I were to do it over agian, would not change a thing, we feel very lucky!

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by Danjols It is all about relationships. You have a great dealer that will take the time and effort to introduce you to the hobby, nuture and guide you along you should remain loyal to you're dealer. On the other hand, if you decide you're seeking a special realationship with a breeder and you find a comfort zone dealing direct, follow you're instincts. It all comes down to realationships and trust, what ever works best for you. We have imported koi from Japan now for several years, direct. The relationships developed directly from our breeder has been very rewarding along with knowledge gained. If I were to do it over agian, would not change a thing, we feel very lucky!

Dan, you and Sharon are some of the lucky few.

[Bob Winkler]

Importing direct is possible, but a bit problematic the first couple times..and if you don't "piggyback" with another shipment of many boxes, more expensive. But possible. Have also done it

[Lee]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bob Winkler Importing direct is possible, but a bit problematic the first couple times..and if you don't "piggyback" with another shipment of many boxes, more expensive. But possible. Have also done it

Dear All Above,

It doesn't matter if Bern was recently in Japan or not - Or, if any one of you knows someone who went to Japan and purchased some fish there and got them home safely the first time or after several attempts.

The inquirey was asked by a gentleman who had inquired if he needed a professional to help accomplish his goal in going to Japan to purchase nishkigoi in Niigata...on his own.

And, those suggesting to this gentleman that he would not necessarily require the advice/help of a professional as they didn't need anyone to help them in this endeavor.

I can only respond - that an amateur hobbiest is an amateur hobbiest and that I wouldn't have an amatuer hobbiest perform surgery on me, nor would I board a commercial airliner without a professional pilot assuring my safe arrival at my destination, nor would I plead a trial without a qualified trial lawyer to do this on my behalf, nor would I build a bridge across a major waterway without a professional engineer to advise on it's construction...

So why would anyone contemplating the purchase of a fish beyond some teenage saleman's selection (of koi) at some neighborhood Pets-Mart glibly suggest on this site to this serious inquirey that they could accomplish the same goals as an experienced professional - in a country where the language is different than their own, as well as, the culture, the terrain and the locations and methodology, technology, etc.etc. - are all different and expect to achieve the same open door result from the inumerable number of problems,issues and frustrations that could be experienced and then wide-eyed expect the same result without a professional as their guide and advisor?

As regards the accomplishments of the renown Peter Waddington having accomplished this task on his own some twenty or more years ago, can only be compared to Tim Waddington today who recently had several dozen hobbyists tied tightly to his apron strings during this past month...each of whom knew better than to make that same trek which Tim's Father did without the guidance of Tim's long term experience, know-how and expertise.

Buying diamonds or obtaining a qualified surgeon or home building is no different.

However, added to the above worrisome investment is a 'huge' language issue, as well as, a list as long as your arm of frustrations associated with your first, second or third trip to Japan to buy koi...

And, whilst (of course) you can do it on your own, the same as you might be able to save the life of your child by your enlisting your own kitchen knife to perform needed brain surgery - the answer is still the same.. as to why you need a qualified professional (than you doing the surgery on your child with a kitchen knife and spatula) as it is the same reason you need a qualified professional to guide you through the maze of koi buying in Japan.

Therefore, should anyone try to convince you otherwise, they no doubt will also convince you they can walk on water - However, no matter how good they think they are in achieving this task and no matter how much money they believe they've saved themselves...

They're wrong! And, that why there are professional guides, buyers, agents and others in this industry who do this work for a living.

My response to you, Sir, once again, is that you find one whom you can trust and whose reputation speaks for itself...so that when you do go to Japan to buy koi in the mountains of Niigata or Hiroshima or Nara or whereever you decide to go, you won't get lost, you won't over pay, you won't make as many mistakes and for certain you won't have to make several attempts to get your fish sent home to you, alive. Or, find it necessary to piggy back them with some other less fortunate who knows just about the same yourself...or, perhaps, just a slight smidge more.

I remember reading on the wall during my third year of law school, that: A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. That same old adage goes for anyone who tries to take the place of any specialist in any professional field.

My advice. As was ole' Abe Lincolns, don't rely upon yourself or another hobbiest when you can just as easily obtain an experienced professional as your advisor and guide.

With my respects,

Lee
Grand Cayman