Put a dollar value on this Sanke and Koromo

[JasPR]

Good morning Diz,
the fish is two in this picture- meaning it was born in spring, spent a summer outside and then wintered inside, was put out again for the second summer and harvested in the fall when this picture was taken. By western calculation of 'age' and birthdays, the fish is 18 months old. She is 16 inches in this picture. A KILLER fish.
Now do NOT be offended as this is meant to be an eye opener and NOT an insult. These are tateshita. Good beginner fish and they definitely have some elements of quality in their color. They are males most likely based on the finishing rate. The problem is, in very small males like this, pattern is most important and these both have pattern problems. Fish of this grade should not be bought for what they might be when they grow up. They are to be enjoyed for now and for the next few seasons.
Here is the rising tide your eye will face as these fish grow—
These fish are ‘cute’ at this size. But as they grow they come up against what is coming into the country for age two and then age three and so on. As these older fish come in, you are looking at those saved from the previous year’s culls. Meaning, the quality gets better and better. Meanwhile your fish must contend with their shortcomings which become more pronounced as they get older.
So pirate Internet practices aside, the ‘system’ will ultimately educate you by comparison examples.
This is a great opportunity for learning here- compare your goromo to this very high class goromo. Can you tell and articulate well the differences in these two fish ( age and size aside) ?
JR

[dizzyfish]

JR,
I'm pretty thick skinned. I've never personally purchased a fish because I wanted to show it, although more and more, I can appreciate the effort that goes into cultivating fish of such high quality. To a great extent, the value of these fish is determined by what people are willing to pay for them is it not? So by posting here it is my hope that we can help people learn not to be taken advantage of when buying such fish. Just for fun I am going to post a picture of two koi. One came out of a batch of "imported koi" that were being sold for $15. The other is a KOI USA poster fish for Ai Goromo.
Mitch

PS
The picture you posted almost looks like Goshiki to me.

[JasPR]

Hi Mitch,

Yes, there is no price for koi only what some one is willing to sell for and what someone is willing to pay. But there is real value if you know all the grades of koi and what makes one koi 'worth the asking price' and one not.

The show is fundamental in setting both price and value. Even one who swears never to show a koi and is even anti-show , benefits DIRECTLY from the show and its demand for ever better fish. The culls of that effort are what non show are offered.

The modern goshiki is from the same complex of many of the modern goromo. That is why they are called generally goromo class. These are all a mixture of kohaku and the old asagi ( asagi goromo) gene. fifteen years ago there was a goshiki ( black based karasu goi gene) and a ai goromo ( a kohaku with 'asagi bleeding thru!') . Today there is the kawari version of goshiki, the modern version of goshiki and the modern and old versions of ai goromo. That fish I posted earlier., by the way is neither an ai goromo OR goshiki! It is however from the same modern complex- can you put a name to it?

Most beginners are blown away by the white of goromo/modern goshiki. This is genetic link shiro ground similar to the shiro ground on purple based beni kohaku. The hard white can carry a fish for a while in its young life. But the tendency for the reticulation of asagi will quickly overwhile most of these fish. In otherwords, they get too messy and dark.

Here's a shot of a high class ai goromo of kohaku grade quality- Personally I like the reticulation lighter than this but this one ain't bad!

[JasPR]

Sorry to take us all so far off topic of price ( these fish are all very expensive! ) But here is the complex today- the ai gormo- the moden goshiki and the old style goshiki.

I think you can begin to appreciate that these are all closely related animals and sometimes from the same spawn. But we give them 'names' based on phenotype. Actually the third fish, in my opinion should be benched in kawarimono if we were being particular. But today they all go in the same goromo class.
WE return the viewer to the regularly scheduled topic------

[MikeM]

Well, Jasper ( ), about the nisai you asked for a price on?... I'd guess she is not for sale yet. So, I don't want to think what it would take to buy her.

[dizzyfish]

Jasper thanks for posting the great photos and also for the great advice and comments. I agree completely that the shows are good for everyone concerned. Your fish is most excellent.
Mitch

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Sorry to take us all so far off topic of price ( these fish are all very expensive! ) But here is the complex today- the ai gormo- the moden goshiki and the old style goshiki. I think you can begin to appreciate that these are all closely related animals and sometimes from the same spawn. But we give them 'names' based on phenotype. Actually the third fish, in my opinion should be benched in kawarimono if we were being particular. But today they all go in the same goromo class. WE return the viewer to the regularly scheduled topic------

AHHHH! Kuro-Goshiki.

[JasPR]

right, if we 'deconstruct' these fish we have :

- a black based fish- very old variety based in the karsu clan.
- an asagi based fish with white genes 'invading' the asgai pattern.
- a genetic 'hat trick' of sorts where a white based fish has remnants of asagi and a dorsal kohaku pattern.

The reader should know that in most white based spawns of high class goromo and goshiki the siblings can be both ai goromo and/or modern goshiki. The only difference is where the asgai scalation effect appears ( pattern or on shiro group) and to what extent the scalation covers the fish in general. Many of the ai goromo will actually become modern goshiki as the fish grow and the asagi effect spreads from confinement within the red pattern to the white body. Look to the beni color tone and any hints of 'bluish' skin to try and predict what might happen.

[JasPR]

No Takers? Ok the answer then- The fish I posted is shochi kubai , a modern version of a metallic goshiki.

The value of this specimen? $3000

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR No Takers? Ok the answer then- The fish I posted is shochi kubai , a modern version of a metallic goshiki. The value of this specimen? $3000

Thank You for the info.