Koi Foods - proteins and carbohydrates

[Auntiesue]

Chirs, thank you so much for this information!! I have one question though. You reference testing that has been done by the folks that make these foods (I assume). Are these formulas actually based upon testing that is done specifically for/on koi or derived and translated to koi foods from testing done for the fishiery industry?(Game fish, food fish, etc.)

[Chris Neaves]

Hi,
The the tests are done by an independant lab. I label the foods by number and not by name/brand when they are sent to the lab.
I have food analysed for basic nutritional values and then occasionally in more depth i.e. amino acid profiles, vitamin levels etc It then becomes quite an expensive exercise.
I like to get an honest opinion.
Chris

[Auntiesue]

Good information, but what I meant is what testing has been done with actual KOI in determining their needs? It is my understanding that most of the growth and health assumptions are drawn on testing done for the fishiery (game and food fish and the like) industry not necessarily koi specific. Is that true? Are we assuming what is good for growing cod or bass is good for our koi also? I hear all sorts of statements based upon some "testing" that has been done but when I check deeper into the subject I find that most of our information about what is good for our koi comes from studies done in the food and game fish industry whereby producers of koi foods have simply borrowed those studies. If that is true (and it may not be) then the foods we are feeding are based upon formulas that are meant for fast growth which in turn can result is shorter life spans and fatty liver problems. So what do we really know about what actual testing has been done that is specific to KOI?

Just want to learn where this information comes from.

Sue

[cppond]

Bump, for more info.

[l113892]

The only person I know that has done testing on koi that i know of is Thom Blishock in Arizona.

[Rich L]

Chris Neaves is one of the authors in the AKCA's Koi Health Advisor program. If you sign up for the program you will be exposed to a number of hobby leaders. We recently completed a continuing education course on Koi nutrition that took us from where Chris left us in the basic koi nutrition training that covers the information Chris has alluded to.(Fats, carbs, amino acids, etc.)

Sign up! When you get to it, you will find info on koi nutritional needs as compared to trout nutritional needs. Go to www.AKCA.org then to the Koi Health Advisor link.

[Chris Neaves]

Hi Sue, hi Carl,

There is very little information available specifically on koi nutrition and their needs.

As koi are coloured carp the majority of information on nutrition comes from studies done on carp. I believe Hakari has done studies specific to koi but you simply cannot get their scientific studies.

Before the koi world becomes upset we need to look at the wonderful results many koi keepers are getting with the koi food they are feeding their fish. Something must be working if we are getting the size, age and beauty we are seeing in hobbyists ponds. There can’t be much wrong with the nutrition our show koi are receiving.

Prof Dominique Bureau of the University of Guelph suggested in correspondence that koi keeping was a peculiar mix of hobby, art, science and commerce. I tend to agree with him.

The Prof also stated that he considered, from a nutritional and biochemical point of view, that all fish species are really similar. He believed that much in his and other published papers applied to koi as well.

We must also consider the fact that there is a massive body of scientific literature on carp (Cyprinus carpio). I personally think that much research into carp nutrition applies directly to koi. Whilst the way food is utilsed in the body of a fish may be the same or similar the actual requirements do differ from species to species. All fish need protein for example – how much differs from species to species. The balance of the amino acids as well as the level of amino acids differs from fish to fish.

I am also of the opinion that nutritional requirements of other fish such as trout are not good and healthy for koi. Trout pellets for example have around 45% protein and 12 – 16% oil. The oil inclusion rate is far to high for koi and some people have found that this affects the skin luster on koi.

You asked the following question - “If that is true (and it may not be) then the foods we are feeding are based upon formulas that are meant for fast growth which in turn can result is shorter life spans and fatty liver problems.”

Answer – koi like all creatures have a growing period in their lives. You and I grow for the first 20 or so years of our life spans. Taking the average age at around 72 – 75 years we see that humans grow for the first 30 – 35 % of their life spans.

If we go by the story that koi live to about 20 – 30 years then we see that they grow fastest for the first 5 – 6 years of their life spans. This every hobbyist can observe. So it stands to reason that we try to achieve maximum growth in this initial period of a koi’s life. Good nutrition from birth is critical for koi. Feeding white bread for two years then trying to catch up just does not work.

I wonder if fast growth in koi would result in shorter life spans and fatty liver problems ……..

Fatty liver problems arise from a number of factors. (1) High fat diets have been shown to produce liver problems. (2) Excess carbohydrate can cause fatty deposits in the liver (3) rancid fat / oil in koi foods can produce fatty liver disease.

The rancidity of the fish oils in koi food occurs with age, poor preservation and continuous exposure to oxygen.

Koi need both essential fatty acids – the omega 3 & omega 6 oils. Some koi foods are deficient in these essential fatty acids. Deficiency signs often relate to swollen, pale liver, anemia, mortality is high particularly in fast growing young fry.

Some koi foods are deficient in these essential fatty acids as the oil content of the food is kept deliberately low to increase the shelf life of the product.

I hope this has helped.

Regards,

Chris

[cppond]

Thanks, Chris.

I keep reading warnings about how the koi can get sick if they have food in their system when the water temps get below 50%. In the northeast, we frequently have periods were we get a few days where the water temps will stay above 50 for a day or two. Is it safe to feed the koi during these periods? If not, our koi could go six months without food.

Since food is supposed to go thru koi pretty quickly, shouldn't it be safe to feed them easily digestible foods, like earthworms, any time they are willing to eat, even in cold temps?

[Auntiesue]

Chris, very well said!! This all makes sense. This has been a question in my mind for a number of years. I feed some of what consider "the best" foods commercially made. I also suppliment with fresh fruits and veggies. A variety seems to work for us. Yes, you can see the results when you see a pond full of lusterous well built koi - regardless of the patterns (good or bad). What I watch for is body confirmation and the luster of the skin quality. That keeper I want to talk to!!

I speicifically look for sources of essential fatty acids – the omega 3 & omega 6 oils in the foods I feed. I also make sure it is added to any homemade foods I offer. I'm a big believer in the power of these essential building blocks.

I have the forms to sign up for the KHA courses this year, but will have a lot of catching up to do. I hope to get started next week!!