Domestic Breeders and Dealers

[koiczar]

Rich

I think the problem you speak of is very real. It's a double edged sword at this time. If a dealer was buying very nice nisai or sansai Kohaku from a domestic breeder I can just see the scenario now:

Dealer: This is one of my best 3 yr olds.
Customer: Who's the breeder?
Dealer: It was bred domestically by (so and so)
Customer: Oh (with a disdain of disappointment)

Then customer wanders to another tank to look at other fish.

Customer: Are these also domestic bred?
Dealer: Yes
Customer: (Again) Oh!!!

Now, if this customer comes in to a dealer's shop 2 years from now with the same scenario, will it occur the same way? As of right now, I would have to say YES! If, however, you start getting your name out there and show some of your wares at a few koi shows, folks are gonna stand up and take notice. That's what it's gonna take to wipe out the scenario above - RECOGNITION!!!

Could you imagine a high quality domestic koi winning GC at a serious show here in the states? Maybe in 5 years. I think, from what I have seen, your kohakus have the best shot at it at the moment. Only time will tell but we're talking about this year's tosai or nisai. Are you ready for that!?!?!?!?i THINK SO!!

Mike

[PapaBear]

Richard,
Just a few random thoughts.
Finding the right dealers is important, and building those relationships BEFORE they represent you could make a difference down the road. The handful of domestic breeders that are already having consistent success in the show arena began doing so while still directly marketing their Koi, and still do to a very large degree. Getting the attention of good dealers means being seen by them, and part of that means getting into the competetive arena.
Reserving some of your best tategoi for customers who WANT to show them will get you entries, ribbons, trophies, and name recognition as an up-and-comer. That is an important step on the road to your future success and growth. Not only do you get your name in the minds of more potential customers, but capturing the attention of dealers as well. The more successful you become in a public way, the more dealers will see you as a potential income source (if they represent you), rather than a business competetor (if they don't).
Have you noticed the excitement generated by the Fall Harvests??? Not just the ones in Japan, but stateside as well! Have you considered having such an event at your place??? Inviting dealers and Koi Clubs around the state to witness and participate in such an event could be a real icebreaking opportunity. It would give you an opportunity not only to have your own dog and pony show, but to educate and be educated at the same time. Dealers and hobbiests alike seeing not only your Koi, but learning about your breeding program, seeing the way you critique your own results, etc... Things like that not only establish new relationships, but build a foundation of familiarity and confidence that could pay off a few years down the road.

[Sangreaal]

In the movie Gladiator, the owner of the poor saps that had to go out in the arena and face a gruesome death said to his top fighter, "Win the crowd and you'll win your freedom." It's the same kind of scenario in your (and every domestic breeder's) situation. "Win the clientele and the dealers will follow."

You've done well to create the demand for your fish by introducing them on eBay to the masses. It was a wise move. Your koi are now demanding higher prices per individual overall than most (if not all) imports that they compete with on eBay. You have a great blooming clientele base, a real following, Richard. There isn't a single fish you offer that has to be reauctioned due to a no-sell, and in the last few months even the least of your fish brings more than the casual ponder can afford due to the likes of those repeat buyers with deep pockets that can't get enough of your koi. We who are so entirely fortunate to own your fish and are amazed at them in our ponds know what you have created as extremely rare and special.

The dealers will follow if they know what is profitable for them...

Marie

[Birdman]

Just my two cents worth. No matter what I buy I like to keep my money at home so to speak. i have seen many domestic koi I would love to have. I think America now has some top breeders that are producing koi equal to the japanese, or close enough for me any way. Plus I think if I buy from a American breeder I have a lesser chance of bringing in HKV or something like that. I just bought two from Brady, and am hoping to get something from Matt. The American breeders for the most part work their buts off, and have developed their own lines of koi, some very striking. I just think we should be supporting them.

[Sangreaal]

I think the stigma of America being an industrialized nation where mass production is flaunted as the pinnacle of success does not mix well with the creation of true Nishikigoi. It conflicts with art--something, that no matter how you try, can never be copied without some way cheapening it. To even attempt to do so is an insult to what Nishikgoi are--living pieces of art. The very thought of this leaves a bad taste in the mouth of those that love the idea of what koi are and creates an instant typecasting of any American that breeds and sells them. It is assumed that the goal of breeding them is geared towards this American Ideal rather than any particular love for koi in general.

But to generalize like this is dangerous. It makes one miss out on the exceptions to the rule, the people that truly have the art of koi at heart and the talent to pull it off. These are the artists--the ones that do this seriously for the love of koi first instead of the money.

We should recognize and support these very special people that drop everything to further the art of Nishikigoi, not criticize them for their efforts or make their way any harder than it already is.

Marie

[lildude]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal I think the stigma of America being an industrialized nation where mass production is flaunted as the pinnacle of success does not mix well with the creation of true Nishikigoi. It conflicts with art--something, that no matter how you try, can never be copied without some way cheapening it. To even attempt to do so is an insult to what Nishikgoi are--living pieces of art. The very thought of this leaves a bad taste in the mouth of those that love the idea of what koi are and creates an instant typecasting of any American that breeds and sells them. It is assumed that the goal of breeding them is geared towards this American Ideal rather than any particular love for koi in general. But to generalize like this is dangerous. It makes one miss out on the exceptions to the rule, the people that truly have the art of koi at heart and the talent to pull it off. These are the artists--the ones that do this seriously for the love of koi first instead of the money. We should recognize and support these very special people that drop everything to further the art of Nishikigoi, not criticize them for their efforts or make their way any harder than it already is. Marie

Bravo!
I so agree.

sorry for butting in.

[Richard Rombold]

All good points and I'll take them to heart. Marie is eloquent as always. I don't have the time for the koi show circuit or promotion because I haven't hired the extra help to free me from the farm. If I hire extra help, then my overhead goes up. The more my overhead goes up the more dependent I am to produce sales and market the fish, and the less flexibility I have to innovate and make mistakes. My low key approach is akin to running a marathon. My goal is to produce fish of such quality that they stand apart. Know me by my deeds and not my words. It's a passion. I want to improve, learn and share the passion. At some point Dealer's and others will catch on. Remember, before this year none of you ever knew I existed. I've owned my own farm and been raising koi as San Joaquin Koi for 14 years now. I'm relatively young. Time's on my side as I see it.

[PapaBear]

Richard,
I understand your conundrum. Time is a precious thing and taking time away from the farm operation is costly. You might have more luck looking for ways to network with Koi Clubs that aren't too far away to visit you for meetings once a year, etc... That way you get to meet and be met by people who share and appreciate your passion without having to take days away from the farm. Many clubs never have the opportunity to see an operation like yours or visit with a real breeder, and your desire to refine your Koi makes you the real thing.
As you already mentioned, Marie put it very eloquently. The artform is lost on many which does attach a stigma. Your posts reveal something more about you. Mass produced crapagoi are NOT something you are willing to settle for which makes you one of the American breeders KoiKichi would really like to meet.

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear Richard, I understand your conundrum. Time is a precious thing and taking time away from the farm operation is costly. You might have more luck looking for ways to network with Koi Clubs that aren't too far away to visit you for meetings once a year, etc... That way you get to meet and be met by people who share and appreciate your passion without having to take days away from the farm. Many clubs never have the opportunity to see an operation like yours or visit with a real breeder, and your desire to refine your Koi makes you the real thing. As you already mentioned, Marie put it very eloquently. The artform is lost on many which does attach a stigma. Your posts reveal something more about you. Mass produced crapagoi are NOT something you are willing to settle for which makes you one of the American breeders KoiKichi would really like to meet.

Larry,
I think you are on the money, quality is what most of us are interested in.

Russ

[lildude]

Quote: Originally Posted by Russell Peters Larry, I think you are on the money, quality is what most of us are interested in. Russ

But it is not what most of us are intrested in the beggining.
I think pond quality, and domestic breeders, because of their location and general expertise (not saying all are poor breeders) are used as a stepping stone to higher quality fish.
I think it is rare that one will jump right to high quality fish, and if they did I would view them as foolish, I still have to get the water quality down much better than I have it, I have been in the hobby for 5 years. but I am just now starting to recognize the beauty of koi and higher quality koi, and starting to understand their needs and preferences.
I am not trying to insult anyone by any means no matter who you are, or your level of expertise, whether it be begginer, or enthusiast.. The breeders on this thread are probably some of the best in the country, so I dont think they should even flinch from my words.
There is always going to be an underdog breeder in this hobby, but they serve their duties very well. We have to probably thank them for opening the doors into the hobby and koi world. Can you tell me anyone who immeadiately started out with a show quality nishikigoi straight from japan? If you can I will stand amazed.

I wish that american breeders would be just as skilled as the japanese, and I do one day believe that they will be, or even surpass the japanese, but it will take a lot of hard work and determination, but it can be done.
In america, the land of opportunity, The Sky is really the limit, but maybe you can find a way to farther...