Domestic Breeders and Dealers

[Richard Rombold]

Well qualified honest Dealers are essential to our Hobby. The Hobbyist needs a source to turn to for supplies and help. In Japan this is recognized. Loyalty and relationship are paramount and its in poor taste to buy directly from a Breeder.

In the States, Dealers, for the most part, shun domestic fish. Understandable. The quality hasn't been there. But, what happens when the quality of Domestic koi reaches that of the average Japanese import? Will Domestic Breeders be willing to abandon the alternate routes to market they have establish for the well being of Dealers? I hope so, but I doubt it. Its something to consider.

This is not hypothetical.

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by Richard Rombold Well qualified honest Dealers are essential to our Hobby. The Hobbyist needs a source to turn to for supplies and help. In Japan this is recognized. Loyalty and relationship are paramount and its in poor taste to buy directly from a Breeder. In the States, Dealers, for the most part, shun domestic fish. Understandable. The quality hasn't been there. But, what happens when the quality of Domestic koi reaches that of the average Japanese import? Will Domestic Breeders be willing to abandon the alternate routes to market they have establish for the well being of Dealers? I hope so, but I doubt it. Its something to consider. This is not hypothetical.

If domestic breeders are making more money selling directly to hobbiests, then I can't see that there would be the same relationship as in Japan. If the level of quality improves to the point that more dealers buy from domestic breeders, then perhaps things would change.

In Japan though, the breeders do sometimes sell directly to Hobbiests. Kato-San does support the breeder dealer - relationship and uses deelers to buy Koi from breeders.

[dick benbow]

All you have to do is look at the excitment on the nisei koi farm thread to realize that the american consumer is beginning to get educated enough to
begin enjoying made in america.

Since my trip home I have been looking into lots of domestic breeders and what's for sale on their home pages. Found a great shiro breeder in tennessee. Took a peek at some of lotusland's gosanke...and I already know what Brett is doing in Texas. Your Kohaku are getting some interest. It's all a matter of diligence , education and time.

42% of my personal koi are from Nisei koi farm. This year I added 3 koi to my
pond. a showa from toshio sakai, and a kohaku and ochiba from Nisei.

[Richard Rombold]

Russell,

Thanks for responding. Think it through. If I am selling the same quality koi as you directly from my farm at half the price, your margins are going down. The more depressed my price is by the domestic tag, the more it hurts you and other Dealers. I know this seems an unlikely scenario to you right now but consider it and keep an eye on domestic fish.

Domestic farms are maturing. If we do so successfully without the help of the elite dealerships, why would Domestic Breeders then sell to those same Dealers when the Dealers thought the quality was sufficiently high?

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by Richard Rombold Russell, Thanks for responding. Think it through. If I am selling the same quality koi as you directly from my farm at half the price, your margins are going down. The more depressed my price is by the domestic tag, the more it hurts you and other Dealers. I know this seems an unlikely scenario to you right now but consider it and keep an eye on domestic fish. Domestic farms are maturing. If we do so successfully without the help of the elite dealerships, why would Domestic Breeders then sell to those same Dealers when the Dealers thought the quality was sufficiently high?

I am watching domestic breeders, I have two very nice Kohaku I picked up recently that I am watching very closely. The problem really is that the domestic breeders really aren't producing enough quality Koi yet. I am sure they will, but why should we buy them now when it can not compete with the Japanese market.

I actually do buy domestic Koi from a domestic breeder and sell them in my store. They are priced for the pond owner that wants something nice for less.

I am in close contact with one domestic breeder and we talk pricing. He can not produce koi for the same price I can get them from in Japan, including shipping. I think this is the largest stumbling block, aside from over all quality, that keeps me from buying more.

After seeing the quality you have, I would be interested in visiting your place. Could you PM me some info.

[Richard Rombold]

Russell,

Great. I'm glad domestic fish are on your mind. Relationships are built overtime and this leads to loyalty. Strong dealers are good for the hobby. I also believe it's about producing the highest quality fish possible and their care. I've seen the posts from the other farms and they are producing some nice fish. Just keep it in mind. Judge us on what we do, and help us if you can. Relationships are built over time and this leads to loyalty.

[danzcool]

Only a hobbiest here, but I was thinking about this earlier today actually. It seems there are a number of dealers that get their domestic koi from just a single source, and don't necessarily disclose that source, yet they get their imported koi from many sources. I'm thinking it has to do with the business model of many domestic farms, and a certain degree of prejudice from the dealers. Most domestic breeders seem to be wholesale only srving the pet stores and the koi dealers that have a single domestic source to "fill out their product line". These guys don't reveal their source, therefore the farm doesn't get publicity, and customers don't ask for the "brand" by name like they would a dainichi or ogata. I think the farms need to have a retail operation or at the very least a few annual events open to the end hobbiest so that the "brand" name can get out there. With the digital society we live in a few good fish go a long way. In the texas show last month I think domesti koi won best in size for every size up through 6... Mostly Brett's or Brady's fish, so quality is there, and those breeders do have retail operations, and the word of mouth is out, and yet I still can't buy their fish from a local dealer. I almost think it is going to take new dealers that deal only in premium domestic koi to change the thinking on domestic koi.

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by danzcool Only a hobbiest here, but I was thinking about this earlier today actually. It seems there are a number of dealers that get their domestic koi from just a single source, and don't necessarily disclose that source, yet they get their imported koi from many sources. I'm thinking it has to do with the business model of many domestic farms, and a certain degree of prejudice from the dealers. Most domestic breeders seem to be wholesale only srving the pet stores and the koi dealers that have a single domestic source to "fill out their product line". These guys don't reveal their source, therefore the farm doesn't get publicity, and customers don't ask for the "brand" by name like they would a dainichi or ogata. I think the farms need to have a retail operation or at the very least a few annual events open to the end hobbiest so that the "brand" name can get out there. With the digital society we live in a few good fish go a long way. In the texas show last month I think domesti koi won best in size for every size up through 6... Mostly Brett's or Brady's fish, so quality is there, and those breeders do have retail operations, and the word of mouth is out, and yet I still can't buy their fish from a local dealer. I almost think it is going to take new dealers that deal only in premium domestic koi to change the thinking on domestic koi.

I never mentioned the domestic farm I buy from because no one has asked. I buy from Blue Ridge. I have tried buying from others that advertise you will get greta Koi, only to be disappointed with what arrives. I think that is the biggest problem for me. When you look at the Koi posted on some of the domestic breeders websites you can find some really awesome product. The fact of the matter is you just can't get them.

[bekko]

Koi ain't shoelaces. There is a lot of variability in the quality and quantity of product from a single farm. Many types of agriculture suffer from this same characteristic. The usual way to deal with highly variable product quality and quantity is to have a diverse (broad) marketing plan. One market will pay a premium for the best stuff, another market will take the junk at a fair price, another you go to when sales are slow and excess fish need to be moved quickly, et cetera.

Direct marketing (breeder sells to hobbyist) is where the best money is. However, time and logistics usually constrain how much direct marketing a farm can do. Most of the koi you will not want associated with your name and at some point you have to decide whether you're a farmer or retailer. That can leave a lot of koi which are too good for the pet store and garden center route, but need to be moved on to make room for the next batch. Enter the dealer.

[MikeM]

My two cents... I think dealers will carry what they can profitably sell. When the knowledge of the hobbyist rises to a level that lets them "buy the fish, not the breeder", then it ceases to be important whether the breeder is in Japan or another country. As long as hobbyists shun domestics for imports, not appreciating the quality of the individual fish, dealers will follow suit. In time it will occur... because the more knowledgeable hobbyists will not decline the opportunity to get a fine koi. Then the crowd will follow, and dealers will be there to serve the customer.... and not just with lower quality domestics for the thin wallet.