For what purpose do you feed?

[PapaBear]

That may sound like an odd question, but bear with me for a moment.
Some people want to "bonsai" their Koi, others go for maximum growth in the shortest time frame, others are consumed with pumping for color at every opportunity. These are different purposes that would impose different feeding regimes.
Here is what I'm looking for.
How much do you feed (under normal water temperatures/conditions) when you are trying to maximize growth? (feed volume per lb fish for example)
When preparing Koi for a show, what changes do you make?
If you use color enhancing feed, when do you stop before show time?
If you are feeding only for maintenence (size and health) how do you feed in terms of feed volume per lb fish?
I'll be interested to see the different approaches taken by different ponders.

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear That may sound like an odd question, but bear with me for a moment. Some people want to "bonsai" their Koi, others go for maximum growth in the shortest time frame, others are consumed with pumping for color at every opportunity. These are different purposes that would impose different feeding regimes. Here is what I'm looking for. How much do you feed (under normal water temperatures/conditions) when you are trying to maximize growth? (feed volume per lb fish for example) When preparing Koi for a show, what changes do you make? If you use color enhancing feed, when do you stop before show time? If you are feeding only for maintenence (size and health) how do you feed in terms of feed volume per lb fish? I'll be interested to see the different approaches taken by different ponders.

OH jeeze... I want to answer this one but I've never conditioned or prepared koi for shows and I simply can't do the math required to calculate feed volume for lbs of fish since I have no idea what any of them weigh!

Marie<---numbers challenged but logic enriched

I feed them several times a day and I let their apetites dictate the size of their meals. A couple of dives down to mid-level to chew their cuds and contemplate the universe and they come back up satiated. I never try to overburden their systems by shoving the feed. Frequent light meals that satiate seems to be working as nobody's overweight or underweight for their size and they are staying symmetrical as they bulk up and lengthen through their growth spurts.

As far as what I feed, it can vary. I want my koi rations to be tuned to the nutritional requirements for the natural growth curve of the variety/bloodline I'm growing out. I don't necessarily trust pellets completely to satisfy the nutritional needs of my koi, though they are a staple of their diet. I may feed high protein pellets in the summer and wheat germ in the winter, but for some reason I just hafta roll all the pellets in bentonite and spirulina. I realize spirulina can enhance color, but I think in moderation the benefits outweigh the risk of dingy yellows and dayglo hi. I also supplement with natural foods from oranges to worms.

Face it, koi love worms and there's a lot of digestible protein in them. I used to watch the fish for hours as they methodically rooted for and sucked up the gobs of worms populating the bentonite bottom of my natural artificial mud pond lab that I had going for a few years. No clay bottom on this rather spartan experimental model everybody's in now. So they get their ration of chubbychewy earth worms on a fairly regular basis. Figger the worms are easier to digest and assimlate than the dried out powdered protein product in a pellet.

Marie

[dick benbow]

During the grow segment of a koi's year,that would be water temperature 70 F or more I feed 3% of their body weight with Hikari Saki growth.Prior to a show I feed 2% of their body weight with hikari wheatgerm for a period of 3 weeks and then discontinue feeding the week prior. During the winter I feed sinking hikari wheatgerm at 1/2 per cent of their body weight every 3 rd day along with same amount the other 2 days with cooked barley. During winter I will wean them away from food for a period of 6 weeks and then start back up again with same wheatgerm/barley regiment.

I don't believe in color food altho truthfully wheatgerm has shrimpmeal but absolutely no Spirulina! My ponds are temp controlled so it's a little easier to maintain a regiment with constant metabolism. Those with unheated ponds need to watch for floating wastes and discontinue feeding for 24 hrs before trying to build back up to a routine gradually. Always better to error on the lean side....

Larry with apologies for what I'm gonna say because the way you phrased it your intend was understood by all , but being the teacher I am for understanding...the art of bonsai is not the art of making minature. Growth is controlled as to what is needed by the specimen to develop into a finished
art form. There are times when a bonsai is put back into the earth and grown
or put into a ridiculously large pot to accomplish the same end. When a bonsai is intended to be held close to the same size then measures are taken
to reduce any growth. This slowing down often causes the leaves or needles to reduce in size which makes it scale more believeable. Bonsai koi however that are deliberately held for size develop over the years bigger and bigger finage in proportion to the body which is a tip off which tells you their condition. You can but a bonsai back in the earth and it will take off in a year or so....not so with bonsai koi as after several years with this minimalist regiment they are truely stunted. thanks for letting me speak about another
hobby I'm passionate about

[PapaBear]

I appreciate your replies and hope to hear from others as well to compare notes.
BTW Dick, I also appreciate your points about the true meaning of "Bonsai". The term as applied to Koi is an unfortunate misnomer that seems to have established itself. Having seen some wonderfully sculpted "Tree Art" I can understand your passion for the real thing . Maybe one of these days I'll make it back to California for a family visit and take some pictures at a nearby Bhuddist Temple for you. There are still many old world Japanese practitioners of the art where I grew up.

[Brutuscz]

During most of the season I feed dainichi growth formula. At a temp between 50-65 in spring..I feed 1-2 times daily. Once the temp hits 65-75..I feed 3 times daily (sometimes more..up to 5 times daily). About 6 weeks prior to a show..I added silkworm pupae and krill with each meal..Also fed growth formula for 1 meal, and color formula for 2 meals (so..3 meals daily). Now that it's getting cold here in new england...I was feeding once daily with tetra food (lower protein than they get most of the season). My growth has been good on this regimen...with many koi growing at a rate of 1 inch per month. The also colored up beautifully..with excellent skin for the show I did this year. I am planning on sticking with this regimen.

I also want to add...when I fed a lower protein fomula to smaller fish...I had several develop a bent spine. Several weeks after switching to dainichi growth.. the bent spine straightened out perfectly. Two of those fish were entered in the pioneer valley show and looked excellent. One other koi still has a bent spine..but I think it will also grow out.

[aquitori]

Here is what I'm looking for.
How much do you feed (under normal water temperatures/conditions) when you are trying to maximize growth? (feed volume per lb fish for example)
Knowing the size of my pond and understanding how big they can get in my pond I don’t stress growing fish. I feed to maintain quality. The first day you see your fish should be the standard that you have to maintain, because by nature a fish will grow. I know a lot of people are too focused on growing fish. Good food to me plays 10%-15% of the equation, water quality plays more of a percentage. Higher protein food for higher temps, lower protein for lower temps. It's simple as 1 2 3...

When preparing Koi for a show, what changes do you make?
I don’t change much as far as diet goes, the traditional stop feeding 1 week before the show is all I do. I do more water changes at that point.

If you use color enhancing feed, when do you stop before show time?
To me if you are goin to feed color enhancing food, it should be done during the hottest months of your area. I would feed color food for 1 month straight, then completely bring the fish off it and back to feeding regular.

If you are feeding only for maintenance (size and health) how do you feed in terms of feed volume per lb fish?
The number of times I feed is to the temps. Spring/Summer I feed about 3 times a day. Fall/Winter I feed once a day. Feed to what the water temp will allow the fish to digest the best.

I'll be interested to see the different approaches taken by different ponders.

[mynamy1]

While sitting long hour in a toilet, a constipated and motivated koi dealer developed an idea of vitamins coating onto the pellets after the high temperature heat extrusion. Vitamins remain their full potency! What a marketing genius! So was what the guy thought.

For those with large pond and slow-eating females, the pellets' green vitamins coating would soon dissolved within minutes in front of your eyes! (i.e. green pellets then would change to tan color) Just not sure what in the mind of Mr. Mano in the koi heaven .... but his living sons are very angry. MALe.

ps. if your koi devour the pellets within a minute or two EVERY TIME, it would be OK, I think.