Russell Water Gardens and Kodama Koi Farm Pair Up /Merged Thread

[jbolding]

We would very much so enjoy viewing pictures of your fish and set up.

I would also like to know what items or set ups Kodama has approved. Not for any dealing I may have with you, but in reference to any dealings I may have with him and his companies.

I also apologise for misquoting you previously, and have corrected my post to that effect. I understand where you are coming from in light of your business motives, however, you are now on a hobbyist magazine forum, and most of us here realize we will loose tons of money on this hobby with no hope of ever recouping it. Our only goal is the betterment of the hobby for our enjoyment. Most of us also started out with something like water gardens or hybrid pond you are selling and soon learned all of the pitfalls involved in in attempting to keep koi in these environments. We only wish to help your customers make it past this stage to where ever they end up as well be it koi keepers, water gardeners, or whatever. But in the long run I cannot see a hybrid water garden koi pond being a sustainable source of pleasure to anyone. Thank you for your review of this matter with us.

[PapaBear]

I'd like to see some of your personal collection assuming there is one, and I realize it probably got lost in the shuffle, but I wouldn't mind hearing your response to the questions I raised in posts 93 & 96.

[Campcheryl]

On page 11 now and post #102, John explains that he does not pictures of his previous ponds but will be taking step by step photos of the display ponds he is building at his new site. He then procedes to explain his new display pond currently being set up. I am not sure if he has any pictures of customer's ponds that have been installed. John will be better to answer that. Maybe after reading post #102 then you can ask more direct questions for John to answer. I look forward to seeing the construction pictures.

[bekko]

Quote: If Kodama is approving any of the systems you have listed, then this is definitely a money thing.

Of course it's a money thing. But, money is not all bad. Without the profit motive all koi would still be coming for the back-yard hobby breeders and the quality of your pond would be only a function of your DIY skills.....

Wait a minute..... Backyard breeding and DIY is the only place I can excel and without the profit motive I could be the best darn koi hobbyist around. Money is all bad.

You guys sound like you are grasping at straws now by wanting to see John Russell's personal pond and personal collection. It's not looking good for your side. On the other hand, I would be really surprised if he had a nice personal pond or personal fish collection. It may be more appropriate to ask to see ponds he has built and the quality of the fish therein.

-steveho pki

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by Campcheryl On page 11 now and post #102, John explains that he does not pictures of his previous ponds but will be taking step by step photos of the display ponds he is building at his new site. He then procedes to explain his new display pond currently being set up. I am not sure if he has any pictures of customer's ponds that have been installed. John will be better to answer that. Maybe after reading post #102 then you can ask more direct questions for John to answer. I look forward to seeing the construction pictures.

I think what you may be missing about our queries is related to firsthand Koi Husbandry knowledge and skill. While I do appreciate the great difference between RWG's approach as opposed to ADI's, neither has demonstrated hands on knowledge of successful Koi husbandry. There is a different level of knowledge that does have its rightful place in the discussion.
For example, while I do find the information presented by Mr. Russell about water quality, filtration, bioloading, etc... to be perfectly fine (especially the conservative fishweight/bioload calculations), I could have googled all of it and made an accurate and persuasive presentation on water management in a matter of hours or at most days, without having ever owned a living fish (not even a guppie) in my entire life. I'm not implying that is true of Mr. Russell, just putting things into perspective.
Excellence in Koi Husbandry is something we all strive for, because we find them beautiful and challenging. No experienced ponder who loves his fish will put them in a "compromised" environment. Newbies come here and to other forums often looking for answers about why their beloved pets are sick and dying, and all too often the answer is the same. Cuts, bruises, abrasions, broken fins, bacterial infections, parasites, neurotoxins, etc... all because they wanted rocks.
No doubt RWG will successfully market a great many "bipartisan" ponds over the next few years. As their popularity grows, so will the number of posts we see from newbies looking for help. It has happened before and it will happen again. RWG's idea is no different than what a great many DIY'ers have done already, and we've already seen what happens.
I truly don't see the need for the "Hybrid" niche market pond. A good salesman who knows his stuff can take a new customer by the hand and show them a beautiful rock garden full of plants and an equally beautifully constructed Koi pond full of living art... explain the difference and the reasons why. Only a poor salesman needs an unhealthy compromise to make the sale.

[Dayleen]

Just for the record...i wasn't wondering around your property when my husband and i were snubbed. We were in your store where there had to have been at least 5 of you in there.

You and your wife behind the counter, neither of you even looked up when we came in. We walked right past you and your staff and not one of you even said hi. I couldn't care less how you run your business but as a business owner to another, i thought the lack of interaction with customers to be a disgrace.

If my staff failed to say hello to anyone walking into my place i would flip. If we are really busy, which we usually are...we at least make the effort to let the customer know with a "hi" or "hello" that we have seen them and that they are welcome here. If there's one thing i understand it's customer service.

Since the last time i was at your store (last April) there were 2 other people there and only one was helped "after" he went to your cash desk and asked for help. When i made a purchase at your store, no one helped me. I took it to your till and the person rang it in and took my money but didn't interact more than that, no thank you was even said. Just turned around and went back to what they were doing. We couldn't believe it..all this with you and your wife 5 feet away.You were not busy, if that was the case i could understand. The only people that even lifted their heads to look at us where the Mexican gentlemen working for you outside.

This is the service we encountered on "both" occasions and very clearly seems to be how you do business. Like i said, i couldn't care less how you run your business...that's your problem just seems to me a smile and a "hi" can translate into bigger sales...but...that's just me.

[Dayleen]

Fantastic...i couldn't have said it better!!!

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear Only a poor salesman needs an unhealthy compromise to make the sale.

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear I think what you may be missing about our queries is related to firsthand Koi Husbandry knowledge and skill. While I do appreciate the great difference between RWG's approach as opposed to ADI's, neither has demonstrated hands on knowledge of successful Koi husbandry. There is a different level of knowledge that does have its rightful place in the discussion. For example, while I do find the information presented by Mr. Russell about water quality, filtration, bioloading, etc... to be perfectly fine (especially the conservative fishweight/bioload calculations), I could have googled all of it and made an accurate and persuasive presentation on water management in a matter of hours or at most days, without having ever owned a living fish (not even a guppie) in my entire life. I'm not implying that is true of Mr. Russell, just putting things into perspective. Excellence in Koi Husbandry is something we all strive for, because we find them beautiful and challenging. No experienced ponder who loves his fish will put them in a "compromised" environment. Newbies come here and to other forums often looking for answers about why their beloved pets are sick and dying, and all too often the answer is the same. Cuts, bruises, abrasions, broken fins, bacterial infections, parasites, neurotoxins, etc... all because they wanted rocks. No doubt RWG will successfully market a great many "bipartisan" ponds over the next few years. As their popularity grows, so will the number of posts we see from newbies looking for help. It has happened before and it will happen again. RWG's idea is no different than what a great many DIY'ers have done already, and we've already seen what happens. I truly don't see the need for the "Hybrid" niche market pond. A good salesman who knows his stuff can take a new customer by the hand and show them a beautiful rock garden full of plants and an equally beautifully constructed Koi pond full of living art... explain the difference and the reasons why. Only a poor salesman needs an unhealthy compromise to make the sale.

BINGO
Larry, that is exactly why we are all asking these questions.
And I agree 100% " only a poor salesman needs an unhealthy compromise to make a sale". There is no middle isle in the true koi hobbiest mind.

[Campcheryl]

You are right Larry. I am not doubting anyone's koi husbandry skills on this board. I have stated that in his website there were many things that bothered me. I have great concern about his new display tank but thought I would wait to see his pictures. I wondered if a customer came in with a pond design and equipment that was not his would he still do the pond the way the customer wanted or only his equipment. I did state too I hope he really spends the time to really seek what the customer is expecting in long term from their pond. It may be costly at first to build it right but in the long run it really is the cheaper way. I too am curious which ponds Kodama has approved. I would love to see construction photos also.

[cppond]

I think some may be neglecting to consider the market of affluent people out there that want a pond and fish as part of their landscaping, and don't care about the koi hobby. If they want rocks and fish in their pond, no amount of cajoling is going to dissuade them. They pay thousands of dollards in landscaping and care for their horses, etc. They have people come in to maintain their swimming pool and have no problem having someone come in once a week to maintain their rock pond.

People have different priorities, and if their priority is not the fish, but the total esthetic, the relative skill of a salesman is not going to deter successful, affluent people from getting it done the way they want it done. I don't disagree that rocks are a threat to koi, but businesses have to deal with reality, not the ideals of hobbyists. IMHO.