How do you decide who wins in Kawarimono?

[mrbradleybradley]

I imagine that this is a difficult class to judge, given the range of possibilities?

BB

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrbradleybradley I imagine that this is a difficult class to judge, give the range of possibilities? BB

BB do you have an example of pics for us to judge...?

[Brutuscz]

So..here are some that I own or have owned. Some Kumonryu, beni kumonryu, kikokuryu and beni kikokuryu. Enjoy evaluating!!!

[Bern]

Certainly the Kawari class has the potential to be challenging to judge, it being the catch all Show Class. However, in the UK it is only the catch-all for non-metallics, so the example where Kikuryus are included wouldn't apply over here.

On the one hand you have the single coloured koi that rely heavily on their body shape and deportment coming up against some of the colourful varieties that often rely on their colour and pattern to compete along with a deference for the degree of difficulty in production.

But like any Show Class at the end of the day it comes down to:-

Body Shape, Skin Quality, Colour , Pattern and characteristics of variety.
You weigh up the positives and if that doesn't give you clear winners then you bring in the demerits.

rgds
Bern

[PapaBear]

I can see how this would be a tough class to judge. With different varieties having widely varying physical traits (different body styles for some, radically different finshes, etc...) skin quality is almost the only "apples to apples" comparison. kumonryu vs kikisui vs haijiro??? Which one best represents it's own variety compared to the others. It would seem like judging this class would require the same mindset as picking a GC from a show full of varieties... but that is just an opinion based on my own assumptions.

[JasPR]

I hate to be a broken record here BUT look to ZNA varieties. Kawari = all others. Kawarimono = all other ones

So you should ask yourself- OTHER than WHAT??? This brings us right back to the evolution of varieties- black to white and black to patterns- solid, wrapped, dorsal and lateral. Then skin- metallic and non metallic and then scales- ginrin and doitsu.
So ALL OTHERS go into kawarimono. There is an exception however- all black based primitive types also go here- the karasu and relatives of the karasu goi. In truth, kawari is built around this clan of koi.
How do we judge these koi? Like all beauty contests there is a standard and we look for the best, most beauty individual representing it’s type. From here, competition comes down to level of accomplishment as a nishikigoi regardless of type. Meaning certain kawari have a natural advantage over other types of kawari. A crow, for instance, will have a very difficult time besting almost anything else in the tank. And a good tancho kanoko showa will likely ‘have it’s way with anything in the tank’.
To summarize:
1) best representation of varieties in the kawari tank, then a competition among the levels of accomplishment of those best of representations–
Note: there are always surprises in a real competition with unexpected types over coming normal shoe-ins, due to deformities, conformation issues, damage, poor conditioning etc.

JR

small correction for the record Larry, kikusui is in hikarimoyo ( metallic fish)

[dizzyfish]

Any class could be easy or difficult to judge depending on the differences in quality among the koi that are entered in the show. I would imagine that deciding which Showa or Kohaku is the best fish at the All Japan show would be the most difficult challenge in judging. Personally I'm still wondering what the fish that Martin and Marks beat out looked like.
Mitch

[Bern]

I have a different interpretation on the Kawari class. In football & baseball they have a substitutes bench which is called the Kawari-endo (i haven't checke the spelling). Kawari also means 'change'. It was explained to me that all new varieties go into the Kawari (i.e. the subs bench) until they decide what to do with them.

Another breakdown of the class was that it contained 4 entities,

Karasu, Single Coloured, Hybrids and Ancestor Koi. The term ancestor Koi covered the Kanokos. Both made sense to me.

An interesting point. In BKKS Closed shows (Closed = in-house) the Show Committee can manipulate the Show Classes to suit the entrants. Two classes that usually get merged into another are Bekko and Hikari-Utsuri.

I judged a Closed Show at the end of last year where two Bekko's of different sizes had been incorporated into the Kawarimono class. On skin quality alone both were run-away winners.

Something Brother James predicted many a year ago.

rgds Bern

[JasPR]

Diz, I think this goes without saying but maybe I better-

we all understand that there are LEVELS of accomplishment in the different varieties right?
There are no 'bloodlines' for most non gosanke. They are the result of a breeding of two choice and proven parents- when they are gone- so is the 'line'. A substitute male will change the look entirely, for instance.
In a related thought, a doitsu fish can not ever really best a wagoi, all other things being equal, as the skin of a doitsu can't compete with the complex skin/scale relationship of wagoi.
Going one step further, as I mentioned in an earlier post, many varieties have no 'stay power' over time. And although we judge for the day, on that day, it can't be completely denied that one fish is of a more enduring quality than another.

Judging koi is not easy. It requires an artistic eye ( pattern and color) but also a knowledge of how LIVING art develops ( transitioanl stages of color and pattern), where it came from evolutionarily speaking, and a sense of what different age groups should look like during periods of normal individual development ( conformation).

JR

[Regenmeneer]

Quote: kumonryu vs kikisui vs haijiro???

Larry, these three will be entered in different categories. Kumonryu will be entered in Doitsu B, Kikusui as mentioned by JR in Hikaimoyo (or in some shows in Doitsu B, depending on the show). Only the Hajiro will be in Kawarimono.

Bern, since Bekko and Hikari-Utsuri will be two classes that will not have very many entrants, especially in a closed show, it seems logical to enter them in another category. But putting these two together, ie a non-metallic and a metallic category, won't you be comparing apples with oranges. IMHO it would be more logical to enter the Hikari-Utsuri in Hikarimoyo and Bekko in Kawarimono.

In the Holland Koi Show in Arcen, there is a seperate class (Kawarimono II) for Chagoi, Soragoi and Ochiba Shigure, in an effort to get them entered into the show. Before the number of entries of these three variëties were minimal because they were beaten time and time again by more "exciting" variëties.