Superiority of Koi

[dizzyfish]

The order of superiority of koi by Mamoru Kodama may be a surprise to some. Some may argue that it is not even accurate. Until I gain more experience I will leave let others decide if he is right or wrong. If anyone disagrees with the order presented in the chart please explain why.
Mitch

[Regenmeneer]

I guess you have to define what the standard is to which you would measure superiority.

Is this overall quality of a variety, the difficulty of breeding a top specimen, the number of breeders which produce the variety, or the number of GC titels won by a variety at the three major shows in Japan?

[cppond]

I think this ranking is probably similar to the "difficulty factor" used to judge olympic diving, skating, etc. If you do a perfect dive with a greater difficulty factor you beat a dive with a less difficulty factor.

Presumably, it is more difficult to achieve "perfection" with a showa. Just my guess.

[dizzyfish]

I'm wondering if something might have gotten screwed up in the translation. The text talks about social status in koi. Also the way the text is written appears to place the koi in different order than the chart. Taro did the translation to English and Karen Pattist edited the book, so some of the choices of words were hers. Does Karen ever post here?
Mitch

[Brutuscz]

I think that among gosanke, it is level of difficulty. A three color koi is harder to finish than a two color koi. So, the order makes sense.

[RayJordan]

In my mind Sanke is more refined and more difficult to approach perfection. Three colors and very specific areas where sumi must(shoulder) and must not(head or below lateral line) appear. Showa is less critical about placement of sumi. I agree Kohaku should be 3rd. Also Goromo is more difficult/complex than Shiro Utsuri. Dorsal patterns are more refined than wrapping patterns that are more refined than lateral patterns, that are more refined than non-patterned solid colored koi

So my list in order of difficulty would be Sanke, Showa, Kohaku, Goromo, S. Utsuri.

[Bern]

I have a slightly different opinion.

I agree with Sanke being first for the reasons you've defined.
Then I'd put Kohaku a very close second, because with no complimentary third colour the placement of the two has to be spot on.
Then Showa - because I consider there to be more latitude with the placement of sumi than beni on a kohaku.
Then Goromo and Utsuri.

But until I saw the earlier post, I'd never considered this.

rgds
Bern

[cppond]

Based on my very little experience with koi, and just some life experience and logic, I can see where showa might be the most "difficult." First, to achieve balance with two colors on a white ground would intuitively seem to be more difficult than to achieve balance with one color (beni) on a white ground. It is true that a sanke or showa's sumi can serve to balance the beni, where the beni is unbalanced, but that would not make for a "perfect" sanke or showa. A "perfect" sanke or showa should have a perfectly balanced beni pattern, and a perfectly balanced sumi pattern that does not interfere with the beni pattern. In addition, the sanke must have quality shiro, sumi and beni, not just quality shiro and beni. I would think that would be more difficult to achieve, but maybe it isn't. Just trying to understand Kodama's order.

As to the difference in sanke and showa, my understanding is that one of the most important criteria in a koi is a clear head pattern. If I were trying to "paint" a koi I would think that trying to paint a perfect pattern in three colors on a small area, such as the koi's head would be very challenging.

[cppond]

JR

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

[JasPR]

Hi Carl, I actually made a comment about this subject in the kawari thread.

Basically I said, that I understand the spirit of that pecking order line up in that sanke and showa need to get more right ( all 3 colors) But a good kohaku, even though it have just red and white, the standards and expectations are very high for this variety. So they must be really excellent to beat other kohaku and other gosanke. A showa, on the other hand is expected to be a tad off on one color and is still judged as 'complete' more or less. So in a certain sense, they are cut some slack that a kohaku could never get away with?
Still, I think this is why, when you count the winners of the All Japan, you see kohaku winning most followed closely by sanke and showa being the least frequent visitor to the winner's circle by far.
By the way, I hear from my spies in Japan that this years upcoming All Japan might very well be won by a showa ( in hidding!)!