Red and yellow both?

[dizzyfish]

Can a koi possess both high quality red and yellow color, or is it one or the other? About the only example of a koi that has much red and yellow appears to be Kin Showa, but the red suffers from the addition of the Yamabuki shine. I have a Doitsu Lemon Hariwake that a couple of faint red or pink spots. I noticed Mr. Igarashi has a type of Kikikuryu called "Momiji" that appears to have both yellow and red on some specimens. The colors don't appear to be spectacular in the photos, but it does seem like a step in that direction. What are the limiting factors in placing both colors on the same fish?
Mitch

[MikeM]

When you figure out the answer, all the breeders will want to know. ....it's tough to even find a true yellow. Even Kigoi are generally orange, except for the red-eyed version, which is a sort of albinism.

[JasPR]

Yellow? Did someone say yellow?

[JasPR]

This is one of the prettiest hariwake I have ever seen---

[keokoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeM When you figure out the answer, all the breeders will want to know. ....it's tough to even find a true yellow. Even Kigoi are generally orange, except for the red-eyed version, which is a sort of albinism.

So if a Kigoi was on the Orange side would it be benched as a kigoi at a show (kawarimono)? Or say Orengi (hikaramono)? I had this brought up to me more than a few times...

Joe

[JasPR]

here's one of those 'pink eyed devils'

Kigoi

JR

[koiczar]

Quote: Originally Posted by keokoi So if a Kigoi was on the Orange side would it be benched as a kigoi at a show (kawarimono)? Or say Orengi (hikaramono)? I had this brought up to me more than a few times... Joe

Joe

As "hikari" means metallic, I don't see the point of the question!??? Orenji Ogon are still classified as ogon - whereas Kigoi are still classified as kawarimono - they are not metallic - same with chagoi and soragoi - IMHO!!

Mike

[Regenmeneer]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Yellow? Did someone say yellow?

JR, is that an old picture? Or just three "old" varieties in it?

[JasPR]

It's just an odd ball- but proof that genetically, true yellow and true red can exist. This fish competed in a 1989 ZNA show
Diz, Joe is right, the classification for SKIN like metallic is more dominating than any color combination. Also kin showa is not yamabuki. You will get all this detail down as you ask more questions so don't get discouraged.
Showa is a three colored fish but some kin showa can range from red to orhange to a brown red color. It is just the effect of heavy luster cell content within the metallic skin. When you look at the different colors in that skin just interpret what you see as 'shades of the same' rather than a true color.
JR

[Regenmeneer]

Thanx JR,

thought that the picture might be older as the two koi in the background looked like Hajiro and Ki Utsuri. (Must admit I just looked at the picture again and noticed a red spot on the cheek of the "Hajiro")