Triva Time!!!!

[aquitori]

Think JR answered it all...need to come up with something harder...New thread "Stump the JR"...

[JasPR]

No Dick, from the next show on- the tanks were blue. This is how early California got there idea for blue tanks ( via Hawaii).

This is the second All Japan GC- the female body won, and things were never quite the same. This Kobayashi showa could EASILY win a US show today , 35 years later! then again, it was only 62 cm ( 24 1/2 inches!)
Hopefully this is an epiphany for some- koi are again , once this good- only much larger- the favored fish in this year's All Japan is a showa like this but over 34 inches! Still this is one beautiful showa---

[Regenmeneer]

JR,

a little confused. At which show/year did the Kohaku become GC? The GC titel went to a Doistu Sanke in both 1968 and 1969.

[JasPR]

I'm a little confused to?

ZNA show

1st - 1966 - showa
2nd - 1967 - kohaku
3rd - 1968 - kohaku
4th - 1969- sanke ( this is first named ZNA show)
5th - 1970 - sanke
6th - 1971 - kohaku


The combined ALL Japan show ( the forerunner of the Shinkokai show)

First one was in the late fall of that first year and then from there - always in January-

1st All Japan COMBINED show- was in 1968 ( fall of 1968). So there was NO 1969 show or it would have to have been a few months after the first show! The second show was January of 1970 ( 14 months after the first show). The winner of that 2nd 1970 show was the showa which won 'best of all' (owned by Susumu, Saku).
I know that Glenn Takeshita wrote in many English TFH publications that a doitsu sanke was the winner of the first show, but in only one candid shot does that fish even show up in the official publication for the fish show that year? The number one photo, page one, is the kohaku I showed you'all.

JR

[Regenmeneer]

JR,

your explanation of the 1st official ZNA Show could be spot on. I have seen the picture of the Doitsu Sanke in several magazines. It's also shown on page 235 of K2K volume 1. On pages 242 and 243, there is a list of all GC winners up untill 2003. It lists a Doitsu Sanke as the GC, owned by Araki Masayuki, bred by Kabayashi Hirokichi. If the 1968 show was held in fall, and from 1970 on in January, the Doitsu Sanke shown as the 1968 GC and the one listed as the 1969 GC could be the same koi at the exact same show.

As for the 2nd GC winner, the Showa you mentioned is listed. It was owned by Saku Susamu, bred by Kabayashi Tomiji.

I recall a story that the owner of the first GC at a show was not Japanese, and later another GC was chosen, or replaced the original one. Just not sure which show that was.

[JasPR]

You're going back and forth mixing info from the ZNA shows and the Shinkokai shows???

The story about the 'foreigner' is about a Japanese American. But that is not the All Japan Shinkokai show.

The history is very murky around the 1st ZNA National show and the 1st Shinkokai Tokyo show. What does come through is the tension between high end hobbyists and dealers at that point in time. This tension has not been between the farmers and the consumer but rather the 'middle men' involved.
The history of mountain carp farmer and fish monger from the city is a long one. But most 'problems' you will hear about really arise from these middle men who once bought magoi for the city people and later nishikigoi for the wealthy gentlemen of those same cities.

I'm sure of the information I gave you about dates, and winners of all the ZNA National shows is dead on. I'm also sure of the second and onward All Japan Shinkokai show winners. BUT that first show-- I'd also like to know for sure , after the politics and infighting, who the real winner of the 1968 show really was? The kohaku or the doitsu sanke? Here's the head, at least, of the sanke at the show---- and Glenn Takeshita's photo of the same fish in all the TFH publications.
JR

[JasPR]

Reg, the plot thickens!! I looked at the picture in K2K and its a different sanke!!! Now THAT sanke IS in the offical book published about the show in 1968!?? But it is size 4 and the kohaku is size 5?! And it is pictured on page 18 only ??
This is getting more and more mysterious!

JR

[JasPR]

Brian San, can you translate this? Domo, JR

[Regenmeneer]

It's becoming very confusing! Although seeing the pictures of the Sanke and male Doitsu Sanke, I can not imagine them being in the same show, and the latter winning GC.

Toni, you thought this thread was dead Keep these trivia coming, cause they will educate at least, and sometimes rewrite history

[JasPR]

There is one way to know FOR SURE. Every year at the All Japan show in Tokyo, they put up mounted poster photos of all the years previous winners.

The first winner is up there. I seem to remember that one of the koi Mags actually did an article about the winners and used these posters as the photos in the article. Any one remember seeing that article? Which Mag, month and year was it? JR