Triva Time!!!!

[Bern]

Hi Jim,

KoiKeepers mag was doing a series on early G.C's could that be it?

2ndly, About the early confusion. That's probably right. In addition Vincent Chiu told me the early combined reference to the AJNPA shows was a combined Breeder/Hobbyist venture, which eventually changed over time to a combined Breeder/Dealer venture with the hobbyist input marginalised.

rgds Bern

[Regenmeneer]

The article is in Koi Keepers 2nd issue.

[Regenmeneer]

The article is about the ZNA GC's. The koi depicted for the 1968, 1969 and 1970 GC titels are all different than the ones shown earlier in this thread It also lists a different location for the 1968 and 1969 show than the one I namend initially.

[JasPR]

well Reg, with THAT comment this may be too hopelessly confused to continue!! LOLs
To begin at the beginning:
There was/is an amateur organization known as ZNA that created the FIRST National show of Japan. It was a show of professionals and amateurs with the emphasis on Amateurs- run and created by Amateurs ( labor by professionals).
Years later, due to the natural evolution of the dealer class, and the rejection by the Amateur class of the Professional influence, a new show was formed - the TOKYO ALL JAPAN SHINKOKAI SHOW! Think location here as the AMATEUR ALL JAPAN ZNA NATIONAL SHOW moves around the country to different chapters. BUT the SHINKOKAI ALL JAPAN show is always in TOKYO.
OK, the fish pictured in the AMATEUR ZNA SHOW are the ones you are seeing in KOI KEEPERS magazine.
The picture I am posting are from the official record of the SHINKOKAI ALL JAPAN TOKYO show. The pictures in KOI KEEPERS magazine are spot on! As are my pictures of the second and third ALL JAPAN SHINKOKAI SHOW .
Better? JR

[Regenmeneer]

I thought that in the years the ZNA and Shinkokai joined forces, the GC would be the same. Not so I guess???

But the fact remains that the Doitsu Sanke and Sanke have both been named as GC. Would like to find out the story.

[JasPR]

Right, you are thinking of what Holland did, I guess?
The first ZNA National show was kinda innocent in it's orientation and there was also Japanese social structure behind it. But this was also going to become the model for the exporting of the hobby over seas as the 'Japanese Miracle’ of Economic rise was to occur a decade later. In that spirit the joint effort of business/government and financing was to also touch Nishikigoi. The ZNA was interested in expanding it’s chapter system in order to share Nishikigoi for social reasons, and the dealers who followed the chapter expansions hoped to supply the koi. But people are people and greed and exposed manipulation soon had some powerful Japanese hobbyists at odds with some dealers.
So the ZNA slowly placed emphasis on members only and non dealer requirements and eventually replaced breeder judges with purely amateur judges.
This Shinkokai then created a show for its members and members customers. This is a trade show with breeders, dealers and customers all competing ( of which many customers are also ZNA members). The judges in this show are only those in the trade. No amateur judges are allowed to judge and this is strictly enforced.
Ironically, in Japan , it is the dealers who set up and supply the man power for these shows! In America it is exactly the opposite! With dealers needing to recruit the local chapter people to set up their shows as they do not usually have the man power to pull off shows. This is probably due to the fact that there is no USA dealer association that can step up to the plate to get that level of work done.
JR