Hobbyists, Dealers, Breeders and ZNA

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal Well Tonio, I guess that clause will effectively prevent me from ever becoming a ZNA member. Bummer. Marie

Well, if you seek the "Professional" route it doesnt mean you cant learn, there are dealers in this club that are learning along side hobbyist. You are always welcome to join it is that you are limited to somethings, but the learning of koi is what we join for.

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori Well, if you seek the "Professional" route it doesnt mean you cant learn, there are dealers in this club that are learning along side hobbyist. You are always welcome to join it is that you are limited to somethings, but the learning of koi is what we join for.

Right.

The learning of koi is what I would join for, only to be penalized by becoming "overly involved" in the hobby by endeavoring to improve or develop some of the bloodlines of the very fish this hobby is about. In other words, I can be responsible for the spawning and growing out of the fish I'd want to show, but be unable to do so because I happen to breed fish and necessarily sell some to support my venture.

In the end, it seems that the "club" is all about hobbyists and fish they've purchased than about the very foundation upon which clubs and their shows are built upon. Being Penalized for furthering the hobby more than any mere hobbyist ever could--by breeding and incidentally selling one's produce to the very hobbyists that will take them to the self-same show--is the height of hypocrisy, IMHO.

This kind of logic eludes me....so nope, you won't see me becoming a member anytime soon.

Marie

[dizzyfish]

What type of show was the All Bay Area show?

[Bob Winkler]

Marie and Tonio,

Could the difference be in "selling" the koi you breed vs breeding for one's own enjoyment and learning? Just a question....

[aquitori]

ABAKS was a hobbyist show.

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bob Winkler Marie and Tonio, Could the difference be in "selling" the koi you breed vs breeding for one's own enjoyment and learning? Just a question....

Most likely. One seems to beget the other. I'm going to be breeding for my own enjoyment and learning, the fish themselves are going to have to earn their keep. Therefore "selling" is part of my process of being able to breed for my own enjoyment and learning.

It's a gray area that needs to be addressed, not swept under the rug.

Marie

[dizzyfish]

I mean who was it sanctioned by?

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bob Winkler Marie and Tonio, Could the difference be in "selling" the koi you breed vs breeding for one's own enjoyment and learning? Just a question....

If a hobbyist was breeding for own enjoyment, then that is fine. But for a hobbyist to turn and sell koi for profit, then it falls in the "Porfessional" term.

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by dizzyfish I mean who was it sanctioned by?

It was sponsured by a dealer, in conjuction with SFBAKC.

[koicluboftheair]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal Most likely. One seems to beget the other. I'm going to be breeding for my own enjoyment and learning, the fish themselves are going to have to earn their keep. Therefore "selling" is part of my process of being able to breed for my own enjoyment and learning. It's a gray area that needs to be addressed, not swept under the rug. Marie

I'm entrigued by your point Marie as my mother Nellie gathers fertilized eggs from wild spawns and raises these fish that any serious breeder would cull and she does it purely for the love of doing it. There is much more effort involved, but of course none of these fish are show quality, but if she were to sell a single fish then those that we purchase from pro-breeders would then not qualify to show. I suspect you learn much more about koi raising them from fertilized eggs than merely purchasing more expensive fish that have already gone through the gauntlet of culling that is essentially handed off to you to maintain and "finish" a week, month, or year before a show.