Hobbyists, Dealers, Breeders and ZNA

[Bob Winkler]

Marie,

What Tonio Said. I am sorry, but that would make you a professional if the koi are "earning their keep". Most Hobbyists have picked other ways to learn than that, but that is a good one. Selling off a few fish now and then after you have learned from them is somewhat of a grey area, but what you describe is not, to me.

[KoiCop]

but I'm afraid you appear to have gotten this ass-backwards.

Long ago, way back during nishikgoi's foundation years in Japan, the corrupting influence of breeders and dealers and the deleterious effect they had on the hobby inspired amateurs to form ZNA in an effort to protect its purity.

ZNA shows are open to and judged by amateurs; professionals cannot enter their koi to compete against amateurs.

AKCA shows may invite professionals to judge, and may have a division for breeders and dealers to enter koi in competition with each other -- but not against koi owned by amateurs.

Professional breeders and dealers have the Shinkokai Association to represent them and their interests. Shinkokai shows are open to and judged by professionals; amateurs can not enter their koi, period.

I can well understand that the interests of the one are not the same as the interests of the other, and vice-versa. Can not you?

A professional can still belong to a ZNA club -- but one can not, by virtue of their holding a club office, use their influence to turn the club into a personal money-making enterprise. That's the dangerous conflict of interest which has reared its ugly head too many times in the past.

It's all about balance, Marie. ZNA, Shinkokai and AKCA: There's a niche for everyone. Don

[Sangreaal]

Yeah, I agree. It's not like raising fish for show and then selling them off when they fade or otherwise not fit the program.

So it just goes to show that I, in my situation, do not belong in the ZNA, and what fish I breed will never be exhibited by me in any ZNA show.

It's all good. It takes all types to make a world and I'm glad we got this all cleared up...

Marie

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by KoiCop but I'm afraid you appear to have gotten this ass-backwards. Long ago, way back during nishikgoi's foundation years in Japan, the corrupting influence of breeders and dealers and the deleterious effect they had on the hobby inspired amateurs to form ZNA in an effort to protect its purity. ZNA shows are open to and judged by amateurs; professionals cannot enter their koi to compete against amateurs. AKCA shows may invite professionals to judge, and may have a division for breeders and dealers to enter koi in competition with each other -- but not against koi owned by amateurs. Professional breeders and dealers have the Shinkokai Association to represent them and their interests. Shinkokai shows are open to and judged by professionals; amateurs can not enter their koi, period. I can well understand that the interests of the one are not the same as the interests of the other, and vice-versa. Can not you? A professional can still belong to a ZNA club -- but one can not, by virtue of their holding a club office, use their influence to turn the club into a personal money-making enterprise. That's the dangerous conflict of interest which has reared its ugly head too many times in the past. It's all about balance, Marie. ZNA, Shinkokai and AKCA: There's a niche for everyone. Don

Thanks Don. I think I got the conflict of interest thing all figured out while your fingers were furtively flying over that keyboard.

I do appreciate you telling me about the different echelons in the koi show world. This is something I'm largely ignorant of. At least there is a niche for everyone!

Tell me, does the Shinkokai Association have any American breeders in it?

Marie

[aquitori]

I think we mention ZNA, but AKCA has the same guide lines too. A club regardless of it being ZNA or AKCA is for learning proposes and I dont think not joining a club should hinder the learning process. The rules of a "Professional" are set, but honestly their are Professionals out there who join a club to increase their knowledge on koi.

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal Tell me, does the Shinkokai Association have any American breeders in it? Marie

I think Quality Koi/ Nesei Koi Farm is a Shinkokai member.

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori I think Quality Koi/ Nesei Koi Farm is a Shinkokai member.

Does this association have chapters in the US or is it strictly Japan-based?

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal Does this association have chapters in the US or is it strictly Japan-based?

Well it is based on dealers. Joel Burkard is the Shinkokai head for the US. You can email him in regards to the structure of Shinkokai.

[KoiCop]

rather than thinking of echelons, think of ZNA, AKCA and Shinkokai as the legs of a tripod -- they're interdependent and together provide balance and stability to the hobby we all love. Don

[JasPR]

To put this all down in one post:

Anyone can be a member of a ZNA chapter. This includes dealers, fish farmers for profit and amateur koi keepers. But those professional members are non voting members and can not hold any office within the chapter.
A fish breeder who sells for profit or a fish dealer who sells for profit and his employees can all be members but can not show fish in the ZNA , which by definition is an amateur learning competition.

The exceptions, in terms of showing, are as follows:

1) a chapter creates a COMBINED show in which all compete ( amateurs and professionals)
2) a special dealer's division or American bred division within the overall ZNA chapter show.

There are variations on these basic concepts and anyone wishing to know more should have submit their questions to their chapter president or representative and it will be passed onto the regional district chairman for response.. This is because the District Chairman has the authority to rule on individual issues on a case by case basis.


Finally, who 'koicluboftheair'? wish to tell us? Lukie is that you? JR