What does the USDA Vet look for in shipments?

[koicluboftheair]

RP corrupt? You don't say )
I wonder how honest the Japanese system is considering they also have a proud tradition of such?

Salamat

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori I know in the Philippines you can forging any health certificate at the right price. All I know is as long as there is a health certiificate presented and the vet gets paid to sign it off who are we to argue. But honestly, I thought those guys would take a sample of the shipment and do a test for themselves instead of non-koi educated vet just looking and asking what are koi.

[MysticKoi]

John,

Come on man... I think with your credentials you would be more considerate, and offer up more in the way of facts vs innuendo?

Bill

[bekko]

There are limits to how far APHIS can push the public with new regulations before there is a backlash that makes APHIS look bad and makes the whole program fall apart. Evidently, they felt that re-testing the fish themselves as they enter the country would be an undue burden that they would not be able to get away with. We think the regulation, as it now stands, is expensive. Imagine what it would cost to have the government do diagnostic tests on every koi.

The quality of a health certificate from overseas is always an issue. The usual appraoch is to get the regulation in place, and then start chipping away at suspected fraud using other channels. It is not like there will be a CIA sting operation to bust a foreign fish farm. Instead they will peresuade the foreign government to, in turn, pressure their farms and vets in exchange for concessions with other commodities.

-stev ehop

[koicluboftheair]

Quote: Originally Posted by MysticKoi John, Come on man... I think with your credentials you would be more considerate, and offer up more in the way of facts vs innuendo? Bill

Sorry Bill,
I guess I'm the sort of character that would also have supported invading Iraq to rid them of WMDs even though there is nuclear material laying about the old USSR left unguarded according to the feds and proliferators in North Korea build them, which is okay. Hardcore hobbyists are funny about their Japanese patriotism and behaving so supportive of the belief that they are I suppose less corrupt than even this government. It is all good. I love everybody. I'm a cosmopolitan globalist

[koicluboftheair]

Well put, but of course that is the diplomatic way of putting a bad situation. In general that is the approach, but there is an assumption that the U.S. intention is in the interest of the koi hobby, which in fact they care very little about. The bait and gamefish interests within the U.S. dwarf the koi biz/hobby. Meanwhile, farms like Keystone Hatcheries deal with both koi, bait, and gamefish. As Mike said in an interview I'll post next week all it will take for common carp to find their way onto the list of species that come under the federal order re: Viral Hemoraggic Septicemia is for one to be found dead in the Great Lakes. Fear mongering or a look into the future? Meanwhile, they produce regs not only for the purpose of protecting domestics, but to maintain trade relations.

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko There are limits to how far APHIS can push the public with new regulations before there is a backlash that makes APHIS look bad and makes the whole program fall apart. Evidently, they felt that re-testing the fish themselves as they enter the country would be an undue burden that they would not be able to get away with. We think the regulation, as it now stands, is expensive. Imagine what it would cost to have the government do diagnostic tests on every koi. The quality of a health certificate from overseas is always an issue. The usual appraoch is to get the regulation in place, and then start chipping away at suspected fraud using other channels. It is not like there will be a CIA sting operation to bust a foreign fish farm. Instead they will peresuade the foreign government to, in turn, pressure their farms and vets in exchange for concessions with other commodities. -stev ehop

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by koicluboftheair RP corrupt? You don't say ) I wonder how honest the Japanese system is considering they also have a proud tradition of such? Salamat

When it comes to tradition, Japanese have more of tradition than the filipinos..look at the economic status..IMHO me being filipino..

Japanese have Koi....

Filipinos have Manny Pacquiao...

[koicluboftheair]

lol! Being a Bayanihan Club member I must protest that Pacman is not everything RP has. Filipinos also have people power I and II

Actually though according to Global Integrity the Philippines ranks higher in their public integrity index than does Japan. Oh, yea I know there are lots of murders of candidates in the provinces during elections. I was in Samar several elections ago to see it first hand, but facts are facts.

Overall, the USA ranks 1st out of 25 countries on the Public Integrity Index falling, into the strong tier. The USA scores in the very strong tier (90-100) for Categories 1 and 3, in the strong tier (80-90) for Categories 2, 4 and 6, and in the moderate tier (70-80) for Category 5.

1. Civil Society, Public Information and Media, Very strong, ranking 1st
2. Electoral and Political Processes, Strong, ranking 5th
3. Branches of Government, Very Strong, ranking 1st
4. Administration and Civil Service, Strong, ranking 2nd
5. Oversight and Regulatory Mechanisms, Moderate, ranking 19th
6. Anti-Corruption Mechanisms and Rule of Law, Strong, ranking 4th
http://www.globalintegrity.org/2004/...=us&act=scores


Overall, the Philippines ranks 7th out of 25 countries on the Public Integrity Index, falling into the moderate tier. The Philippines scores in the strong tier (80-90) for Categories 1, 3, 4 and 5, in the moderate tier (70-80) for Category 6, and in the weak tier (60-70) for Category 2.

1. Civil Society, Public Information and Media, Strong, ranking 8th
2. Electoral and Political Processes, Weak, ranking 19th
3. Branches of Government, Strong, ranking 2nd
4. Administration and Civil Service, Strong, ranking 3rd
5. Oversight and Regulatory Mechanisms, Strong, ranking 7th
6. Anti-Corruption Mechanisms and Rule of Law, Moderate, ranking 10th
http://www.globalintegrity.org/2004/...=ph&act=scores


Overall, Japan ranks 11th out of 25 countries on the Public Integrity Index, falling into the moderate tier. Japan scores in the strong tier (80-90) for Category 1, in the moderate tier (70-80) for Categories 2, 3, 5 and 6, and in the very weak tier (below 60) for Category 4.

1. Civil Society, Public Information and Media, Strong, ranking 6th
2. Electoral and Political Processes, Moderate, ranking 9th
3. Branches of Government, Moderate, ranking 12th
4. Administration and Civil Service, Very Weak, ranking 21st
5. Oversight and Regulatory Mechanisms, Moderate, ranking 21st
6. Anti-Corruption Mechanisms and Rule of Law, Moderate, ranking 11th
http://www.globalintegrity.org/2004/...=jp&act=scores

I thought of raising koi with friends in Calbayog, but figured tilapia or bangus might due better.
http://stkitts.globat.com/~ussecf.com/calbayog.html

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori When it comes to tradition, Japanese have more of tradition than the filipinos..look at the economic status..IMHO me being filipino.. Japanese have Koi.... Filipinos have Manny Pacquiao...

[MysticKoi]

John,

Interesting... but you know what they say about statistics! Problem here is that the numbers you quoted aren't even real statistics. As per the referenced site;

We cannot measure, with any degree of completeness, the hidden practice of corruption. We can, however, measure the opposite of corruption—namely, the systems that expose corruption, deter it, and ultimately prevent it. Global Integrity focuses on the existence and effectiveness of mechanisms that prevent abuse of power and promote public integrity, and on the access that citizens have to their government. Global Integrity describes and evaluates the quality of deterrents to corruption—institutions and practices that discourage and prevent corruption and abuse of office by public officials serving their own interests above those of the public.

The numbers therefore are an ambigous value derrived from "existence and effectiveness" of laws? There is an old quoatation that goes something like "Honest people do not need laws to guide them, and dishonest people will simply find a way around them".

Given real statistics of crime rates on various parts of the world, I wonder if it is at all possible that the Japanese rated lower on your souce as a function of the integrety of the Japanese people?

Murders per 100,000.
1. Russia Federation 18.07
2. United States 6.32
3. Malaysia 2.73
Taiwan 1.17
Spain 1.08
Japan 0.58

Rape per 100,000.
1. United States 34.20
2. England and Wales 14.69
3. France 13.38
Taiwan 8.82
South Korea 4.38
Spain 3.23
Japan 1.48

Serious Assault per 100,000.
1. Australia 713.68
2. England & Wales 405.20
3. United States 357.94
Taiwan 37.30
Spain 23.94
Japan 15.40

Robbery/Violent Theft per 100,000.
1. Spain 169.85
2. United States 169.02
3. France 144.10
Taiwan 14.35
South Korea 11.74
Japan 2.71

Kind Regards,
Bill

[koicluboftheair]

Bill I don't believe violent crime rates is germaine if we are addressing the propensity of a government to be corrupt or corrupted. Maybe bribery should be the measure?

According to the Transparency International Bribe Payers Index 2002

835 business experts in 15 leading emerging market countries were asked: In the business sectors with which you are most familiar, please indicate how likely companies from the following countries are to pay or offer bribes to win or retain business in this country?

A perfect score, indicating zero perceived propensity to pay bribes, is 10.0, and thus the ranking below starts with companies from countries that are seen to have a low propensity to foreign bribe paying. All the survey data indicated that domestically owned companies in the 15 countries surveyed have a high propensity to pay bribes-higher than that of foreign firms.

1 Australia score 8.5
2 Sweden & Switzerland 8.4
4 Austria 8.2
5 Canada 8.1
6 Netherlands & Belgium 7.8
8 United Kingdom 6.9
9 Singapore & German 6.3
11 Spain 5.8
12 France 5.5
13 United States & Japan 5.3
15 Malaysia & Hong Kong 4.3
17 Italy 4.1
18 South Korea 3.9
19 Taiwan 3.9
20 China 3.5
21 Russia 3.2
Domestic companies 1.9

http://www.transparency.org/content/....14.bpi.en.pdf

Of course under the OECD Anti-Bribery Convention it is now illegal under international law to bribe a foreign public official, but domestic companies in the worst offending nations are most likely to do the bribery anyhow. And though many nations ratified that treaty including the U.S. and Japan (that stand supposedly equally likely to accept bribes) others including Taiwan, Malaysia, Hong Kong, and China did not. Not so amazingly they are among the worst offenders.

I hear tell that one of the favorite Yakuza tats is of koi. I wonder if they prefer hi or maybe kin?

Quote: Originally Posted by MysticKoi John, Interesting... but you know what they say about statistics! Problem here is that the numbers you quoted aren't even real statistics. As per the referenced site; We cannot measure, with any degree of completeness, the hidden practice of corruption. We can, however, measure the opposite of corruption—namely, the systems that expose corruption, deter it, and ultimately prevent it. Global Integrity focuses on the existence and effectiveness of mechanisms that prevent abuse of power and promote public integrity, and on the access that citizens have to their government. Global Integrity describes and evaluates the quality of deterrents to corruption—institutions and practices that discourage and prevent corruption and abuse of office by public officials serving their own interests above those of the public. The numbers therefore are an ambigous value derrived from "existence and effectiveness" of laws? There is an old quoatation that goes something like "Honest people do not need laws to guide them, and dishonest people will simply find a way around them". Given real statistics of crime rates on various parts of the world, I wonder if it is at all possible that the Japanese rated lower on your souce as a function of the integrety of the Japanese people? Murders per 100,000. 1. Russia Federation 18.07 2. United States 6.32 3. Malaysia 2.73 Taiwan 1.17 Spain 1.08 Japan 0.58 Rape per 100,000. 1. United States 34.20 2. England and Wales 14.69 3. France 13.38 Taiwan 8.82 South Korea 4.38 Spain 3.23 Japan 1.48 Serious Assault per 100,000. 1. Australia 713.68 2. England & Wales 405.20 3. United States 357.94 Taiwan 37.30 Spain 23.94 Japan 15.40 Robbery/Violent Theft per 100,000. 1. Spain 169.85 2. United States 169.02 3. France 144.10 Taiwan 14.35 South Korea 11.74 Japan 2.71 Kind Regards, Bill

[MysticKoi]

John,

Actually, I don't see how these "Google" wars are germaine to the original intent of this thread, nor do they serve to prove any point relative to the "actual" conformance to the new import regulations. Purely speculation (except for the evidence that Mr. Hatfield has?).

And as for the Yakuza... I wouldn't know!

Kind Regards,
Bill