Friendship Through Koi

[Sangreaal]

What a lovely thought, don't you think? Friendship through our love of koi...

Some months back I had the good fortune of becoming friends with a fellow that has been very privately going about his personal business of weaving the genes of Nishikigoi. Been doing it for 14 years all by himself, for himself. He didn't need us. He was quite content in his private bubble, selling a few fish from time to time but generally keeping to himself. To me, his fish were uncommonly beautiful and I had to have something of his in my pond. I bought one, then another. And during that time a fast friendship was forged, all because of our mutual love for these incredible koi.

Back then, you couldn't pay him to release the name of his farm, much less go into business under it. He was the quiet and reclusive Fishmaker, and he was content with his anonymity.

You can't imagine the lengths I had to go to, to bring him here and share his best with us. I had thought there would be a deep appreciation for what he had done for and with the Japanese bloodlines he so lovingly works with. I was sure there would be curiousity on how he's done what he has been able to do with what he has, as it is amazing. So very cautiously, ever so carefully, Richard Robold of San Joaquin Koi, the anonymous Fishmaker, finally stuck a toe in the water of Koi-Bito pond as I had asked and began sharing.

How many Japanese breeders would even let you get a glimpse of the inhabitants of their tategoi pond, their keepers, the holders of the genes these people have painstakingly woven into works of art? And how many Japanese breeders would sell any of them to anybody? A rare few, I bet, if any.

So it was a rare treat and a profound honor that not only was Richard willing to show us all the best of the best in his tategoi pond, but his gesture of friendship included gifting me with one of these, a grail full of the best of his bloodlines to aid and support me in my own breeding endeavors. I could never have touched one otherwise.

Somehow this act of kindness and generosity was construed as some elaborate marketing ploy and summarily shot in the head, effectively ending the thread before its time. Not every American is a greedy bastard, people. Not every breeder is concerned with the bottom line of profit over art. And not every breeder will turn down substantial amounts of cash to remove one of the fish from the thread (and my selection of choices) to put it into that behind-the-back opportunist's hands.

Richard did.

I am ashamed of the people that accuse him of inpropriety and shady dealings, and deeply embarrassed. I brought him here, almost kicking and screaming, in order to show you something very rare and very precious, and you people spit on it. As a result, it'll be a cold day in hell before you ever get the chance to see anything like this again.

And you people know who you are.

Marie

[aquitori]

I think that's what Koruki instilled when he founded the ZNA "Friendship through Koi". Marie there are alot of gray areas in this peaceful hobby we call Nishikigoi, but it comes with every hobby.

[RayJordan]

Marie,
I am sorry that this happened. I saw some of the thread with the photos of koi that were bred by Richard. Very Nice. I didn't see the negative posts you are referring to. I regret the lost of oppertunity to see more of his koi.

Business is business and there needs to be some protection of advertisers on a message board we all understand. Some posters on the internet have their own agendas and use message boards in a negative fashion to harrass those they perceive as enemies.

[Bob Winkler]

Marie,

wow! That su*ks! I, too, missed the negative posts, but it is too bad. Richard seems to have a very good handle on developing and breeding koi from his pictures. I believe I met him when judging the Fresno show last year. Nice guy! Will look forward to more pix.

[Regenmeneer]

Sorry to hear that, I thoroughly enjoyed the topic in which Richard showed his excellent koi.

[lildude]

Did something bad happen?

[Sangreaal]

There never were any negative posts, nor were there any posts intonating these koi were for sale, nor were there posts directing anyone to San Joaquin Koi or eBay or any other outlet where Richard's koi might be purchased. There were several zealous and totally positive remarks about him and his fish and queries whether they were for sale and urgings for me to buy them all, which, if the thread had been read instead of skimmed, it would be abundantly clear to the poster that these koi are not here to be sold but to be shown, with a collective effort urged to help me decide upon one of the many.

The problem is with people who, had they taken our way of presenting fish, would have no problem betraying the trust of Koi-Bito and the good people and vendors here, who have projected that pall over the honest and innocent thread that Richard started. Like I said, someone has already offered a hefty amount to buy one of them like they were put up as a sales front, and Richard summarily turned them down.

That says ALOT about his integrity in this matter right now. Behind the scenes and off this board he has been highly ethical and trustworthy to the core.

So JNorth and Brian, what say you now? How about explaining your side of the story for the good people here that don't understand what is going on.

It's truth time.

Marie

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal There never were any negative posts, nor were there any posts intonating these koi were for sale, nor were there posts directing anyone to San Joaquin Koi or eBay or any other outlet where Richard's koi might be purchased. There were several zealous and totally positive remarks about him and his fish and queries whether they were for sale and urgings for me to buy them all, which, if the thread had been read instead of skimmed, it would be abundantly clear to the poster that these koi are not here to be sold but to be shown, with a collective effort urged to help me decide upon one of the many. The problem is with people who, had they taken our way of presenting fish, would have no problem betraying the trust of Koi-Bito and the good people and vendors here, who have projected that pall over the honest and innocent thread that Richard started. Like I said, someone has already offered a hefty amount to buy one of them like they were put up as a sales front, and Richard summarily turned them down. That says ALOT about his integrity in this matter right now. Behind the scenes and off this board he has been highly ethical and trustworthy to the core. So JNorth and Brian, what say you now? How about explaining your side of the story for the good people here that don't understand what is going on. It's truth time. Marie

Marie
I am sorry you feel Richard was wronged by, Jim N. & Brian. This is Brians board and as such he can ban or ask people to not post certain things. Without Brian's paid advertisers on this board, we would not be able to come on here and share and learn. There would be no board to come to. Brian depends on these fine dealers to defer the cost of this board. I understand how you feel, you feel Richard was wronged. Because he was not selling any of these fish, that he was sharing them with us. But Marie you have got to also see that even though he was sharing and not selling, he was still getting FREE advertisement in his own way. I am sure it was not intentional, but never the less, look how many people now know of his bussiness, and his location, and also the quality of his koi. So you see Marie there are always 2 ways of looking at things. JMHO

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nancy M. Marie I am sorry you feel Richard was wronged by, Jim N. & Brian. This is Brians board and as such he can ban or ask people to not post certain things. Without Brian's paid advertisers on this board, we would not be able to come on here and share and learn. There would be no board to come to. Brian depends on these fine dealers to defer the cost of this board. I understand how you feel, you feel Richard was wronged. Because he was not selling any of these fish, that he was sharing them with us. But Marie you have got to also see that even though he was sharing and not selling, he was still getting FREE advertisement in his own way. I am sure it was not intentional, but never the less, look how many people now know of his bussiness, and his location, and also the quality of his koi. So you see Marie there are always 2 ways of looking at things. JMHO

That's true, Nancy. But...Richard asked and had been advised that it would be okay to do as long as he did not mention his farm's name or ebay. He had been given permission aforehand and never stepped over the line.

That is my gripe.

Many people already knew about Richard and his farm from me and my posts. Not from his threads, because he's only been responsible for a handful of posts in the last few weeks or so. Am I to be admonished then for advertising for him aforehand, then? Is it then wrong for people to share their knowledge and experiences with koi bred by people that do not advertise on this board? That would be the majority of Japanese breeders, don't you think? Take a walk through the posts of mud pond pulls and boxes of koi coming in from Japan. Do all of those people advertise on this board? And are they ethically wrong for sharing like they do?

I don't see the difference. I really don't.

Marie

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal That's true, Nancy. But...Richard asked and had been advised that it would be okay to do as long as he did not mention his farm's name or ebay. He had been given permission aforehand and never stepped over the line. That is my gripe. Many people already knew about Richard and his farm from me and my posts. Not from his threads, because he's only been responsible for a handful of posts in the last few weeks or so. Am I to be admonished then for advertising for him aforehand, then? Is it then wrong for people to share their knowledge and experiences with koi bred by people that do not advertise on this board? That would be the majority of Japanese breeders, don't you think? Take a walk through the posts of mud pond pulls and boxes of koi coming in from Japan. Do all of those people advertise on this board? And are they ethically wrong for sharing like they do? I don't see the difference. I really don't. Marie

Marie,

I have met Richard and been to his Koi farm. We have developed a frienship and I support him in what he is doing. I will support him in the future as well.

I think that the difference between a thread that shows mud pond pulls in Japan and talks about the breeders and shows their Koi, is that the breeders themselves are not doing it. My thread on my trip to Japan showcased a lot of different breeders. I am a paid advertiser and these breeders supply my product, and being a paid advertiser on Koi-Bito I can talk about my product and who produces it. Although I do support having Richards thread here, I can see that the difference is that he is talking about his product, whether he is intending to sell them or not, and he is not a paid advertiser. So as difficult as it may be, if Brian and Jim have now determined that it has gone too far, then I think it is only fair. I hope you understand.

Russ