How would you rate these breeders....?

[aquitori]

Sakai Hiroshima

Sakai Isawa

Maruyama

Momotaro

Iggy Kazuto

Seitaro, Hirasawa, Murasei

Sakuma

[Russell Peters]

They are all very Good!LOL

[Bern]

OK - Let's be contraversial.

Sakai Isawa - the Innovator.

The rest - some of the best of the imitators.

rgds BERN

[PapaBear]

Imitation is said to be the highest form of flattery

[dick benbow]

With respect to Sakai of Hiroshima, they have taken sensuke bloodline koi and developed their own Kohaku keito in an innovative way. While everyone was trying to keep this bloodline "pure" for the body shape and Hi, they went about changing it to their idea of the perfect koi. They were often criticised
for making the bloodline get redder and redder.They also pioneered the use of modern monitoring devices to oversee temps and ph

I think everyone knows that Toshio has been and will always be someone I have high regard for, I think the story is well known of the magoi bloodline.
And soon folks will figure out his new beni and new sumi will also be a welcome addition.

But each breeder has their own vision of what they want and need to get some credit for what they have accomplished and what mark they are pressing toward. Often we don't know what it is but because of our ignorance BUT we can't cut them short for regard and respect. When Asagi was on the verge of being an also ran, Hosokai brought them back. When Shiro Utusri was just another color variety, Omosako created new interest. When mano-san passed away, everyone thought the magic of daiinichi was gone, his sons have proved that to be wrong. We could talk about lots of breeders unknown by the vast majority who have contributed greatly in their own way. How many know the kohaku magic of hasegawa?
Rank one over the other...not for me....I'm gratefull for one and all and the contribution each makes. Many of these breeders now have sons in training,
what magic will they have plans for....makes you wish you knew the secret
to long life so you could be here to see it......I think the best judge of koi accomplishment will be time, and like stairsteps, one generation builds it's sucess from the generation before as the hobby rises to the top....

[l113892]

I don't think Sakuma makes this list. I have been there twice and I really like him but he doesn't make the list.

[Brutuscz]

Sakai hiroshima created my favorite kohaku ever..this one!! Makes them #1 in my book.
There are several I feel should be on the list. Omosako and hosokai of course. But, also...Seki(utsuri), hiroi(goshiki), Jimbei(sanke), shinoda(doitsu and ginrin), teradomari(ginrin kohaku) and Suda..for supplying broodstock to so many other breeders. Dainichi goes without saying. All incredibly talented in their respective varieties.

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bern OK - Let's be contraversial. Sakai Isawa - the Innovator. The rest - some of the best of the imitators. rgds BERN

I think Bern sums it up best because there are a lot of things about Toshio Sakai that people just don't know. He is an innovator for sure, his new Showa line that he has spent twenty years on is proof of that. He has lent out more Oyagoi than anyone knows and is responsible, in a sense, for the success of many breeders. He is responsible for stabilizing the Ogon and supplied Izumiya with his Yamabuki........

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bern OK - Let's be contraversial. Sakai Isawa - the Innovator. The rest - some of the best of the imitators. rgds BERN

I think I would put Dainichi in a class above Toshio Sakai, even thou I didnt add him to the list I felt that the breeder was put in a class all by himself. Even thou the founder is gone the tradition still lives on. As far as innovator goes not very many people even Westerners were allowed into his "Circle" so alot of Mr. Mano's knowledge was keep a secret and out of the eyes of many people. We still til this day dont know what bloodlines he used to make the Dainichi line and I dont think Maruyama would give note to that, even thou they worked so close together to develop their lines.

As it stands today many breeders use the Dainichi Kohak(u) and Showa lines that make up their famous fish today. From Sakai Hiroshima to Momotaro etc etc. Toshio has spent the last decade refining his product and seeing the weakness in his product he has barrowed from quite a few from the aboved mentioned breeders. I think that's why he was at a Momotaro Auction buying fish. Like Dick B stated, he spent awhile learning Toshio's stuff to have him change it up again like that. But honestly, I can only see one fish from the Sakai Magoi bloodline that took high prize at All Japan and that is the 101cm Sanke. Where are the rest of these prize winning fish from the Magoi bloodline? Only 1 Sanke, in which Mr. Maeda raised to exceed 1 meter for competition.

I watched the "Koi Talk" video again and was amazed to hear that without the help of Peter Waddington and the "Koi Kichi" book Toshio Sakai wouldnt be where he is now in status...

IMHO...Dainichi and Toshio Sakai can not be spoken in the same breathe.

[MysticKoi]

Quote: Sakai hiroshima created my favorite kohaku ever..this one!!

I like to post this photo every time someone mentions her! Shawn and Kentaro giving her a close look.



Kind Regards,
Bill