Help with examples of koi by Bloodline

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz Matsunosuke...Big, Big, Big...with a dignified appearance. The large body conformation is the priority. Skin quality is secondary..and pattern is the last priority.

These fish pictured are not from the magoi bloodline. Cigar shape of the bloodline and unless it is from the magoi bloodline it is size too.

[johnm]

This is a very interesting thread. One of my dealers sells kohaku from "murata" bloodline. I haven't been able to find any information on this one. Does anybody have any information on this line?

[jamessharp]

A whole load of useful info can be found on the main koi-bito website about sakai
hiroshima - http://koi-bito.com/content/view/12/27/1/1/
An interesting chart on page two shows the line fully.

James

[l113892]

Mitch-

Rose is not a bloodline. It may be be more a keito(trait), but definitely not a bloodline.

Mike

[dizzyfish]

Quote: Originally Posted by l113892 Mitch- Rose is not a bloodline. It may be be more a keito(trait), but definitely not a bloodline. Mike

Mike what is the quote below telling us?

"Certified two year old offspring of Sakai of Hiroshima's "Love Symbol", direct descendant of the world acclaimed "Rose" bloodline."

[dick benbow]

thanks to those who posted links to sakai of hiroshima...
I was reminded by my koi kichi in the UK this morning that Matsue nishikoi center is also a modern breeder of the sensuke bloodline.

Rose probably is one of the more famous parent lines from sakai. And as we've learned in the past many will pay good dollars to get the young from
an all japan winner the following spring ( tho no history has determined that this breeding will amount to anything.) Roses line however has proven a stable consistancy.

Steve aka birdman is quite the breeder of quality racing pigeons. there is much similarity in the genetics passed on by proven parents.

I think the ability to justify the expenditure of top dollars helps when you have a proven record and a yardstick to measure expectations.

to me the english language leaves a lot to be desired. many times we use words that are not true indicators of what is being said but is universally understood what is meant. Rose is not a bloodline in and by herself. she is the example of excellence as to what has been accomplished by the excellent vision of the sakai brothers ( kentaro's dad and uncle, and 2 generations before them). when we buy say a dog for show, everyone wants a record of the dam and sire to demonstrate the expectation of the descendants.
they say then that this Pup bloodline can be traced thru these parents. the parents are only contributors. I could try and rattle on about this but hopefully this has cleared up the difference between what is said and what is meant.

[dizzyfish]

Dick,
I'm sorry that it has been hard for me to understand how the bloodlines work. After reading the links posted several times it is becoming clearer. I do have a question though. As it is used in this articles what does it mean when he says: good 'date'



"For "Donguri", the first breeding was with Sensuke Kohaku. It was the brother crossing. Hiroji Sakai remarked before, "It just did not work well." He went on, "Next, we chose a different male, which helped produce one with good 'date'. After that, we changed male parents from time to time, but we found some with good 'date'" This was how the process went to finally choose the two Dainichi Kohaku males as the fathers."

[Bob Winkler]

Sensuke Kohaku and Dainichi Showa

[dick benbow]

I could use some help on the word "date" Myself. It wasn't clear what was meant and it may have been a literal translation from a japanese word to english. My quess would be a first meeting ( spawning ) but I honestly don't know. I went to babblefish on the web and typed it in on the language translation but got no explaination.

Bob the picture of the kohaku is an excellent example of classic sensuke body shape. Thanks for posting it.

[dizzyfish]

Dick I think you might be right about the meaning. Do you think he is talking about inbreeding when he uses the term "brother crossing"? Seems like an odd way to express it, but I understand the problems in translating.
Mitch