Spawning in water plants

[koifishgirl]

Want some help with this as I want to spawn a pair of my koi in some water lillies in one of my mud ponds. What do you think of doing something like this? It is a good idea or bad?

[koifishgirl]

No one on this board that can help me?

[dizzyfish]

I think water hyacinth works better.
Mitch

[dick benbow]

Most serious koi breeders I know like to breed their koi in a controlled environment. The reason they do this is to be able to avoid fungus and other things that can adversely affect a spawn. Once the eggs are treated, removed from the foul water of the spawning container and the water temp controlled, they have fry to release in the ponds in about 3 days.
KFG, you can spawn your koi in a natural environment, and on lilly pads. It's just that you won't get the survival rate with the fry. Of concern is any rocks or sharp edges that a female might be shoved into causing additional grief. As your learning you can become more diligent. Maybe the first spawn effort should be as much for the education of it than doing exactly as the professionals. Many times a spawn will start around 4 am and you must monitore so that the parents are not seriously injured. Besure and have a quiet spot for the female to recover for several days. The males can go back into the regular pond but not the lady till the spawning scent gets off her ( or she will continue to be driven )

I have found the timing important to get a couple to pair up. I like 4 days before a full moon, increased oxygenation in the spawning area and the ability to drop or raise the temps 4 F to help set off the spawn but then to be able to stabilize the temps so that the water does chill leaving the eggs/fry at risk. So this spring see if you can get near a full moon with stable evening and day temperatures forcast for about a week or so.

the secret with fry is to be able to feed them live foods the first month. You'll need to read up on how to have an explosion of daphne in the rearing place for your fry. You can try brine shrimp but it's lots of work and not near as effective. Your first cull will come after 30 days and the babies should be able to be close to an inch long already. Solid whites and reds are offed the first time, then as each month progresses, a proper pattern is sought after.

[koifishgirl]

Thanks Dick,

I have a holding pen that I put small koi in when someone wants a few. It is just about the right size and smooth that would not hurt my parents. Only thing is that I need to know just how to raise the food for the fry.

Last spring I just let them do there own thing and it did not turn out to well. I want a good spawn with lots of eggs. I will only be using one male to one female because I only have one good male.

It is a 8x8 box that would give them plenty of room to spawn. I hope this is not to large?

What is a good way to get live food going for them and how do I get this food to the fry. Also what would be the best way to get rid of the dirty water and replace with clean and not have a kill off of my fry?

[bekko]

Mitch is correct - water hyacinth works much better. Lilies do not have enough frilly stuff to catch many eggs. You cannot give the adults the hyacinth too soon though or they will eat all the roots off before spawning time comes around. Since you are spawning them in a cage the netting will also catch some eggs but it will let a lot fall through too. Those that fall to pond bottom will not hatch very well.

Lots of places now cover the bottom of the spawning tank or cage with mat to catch eggs. Something like this:
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/...etail/iid/3365
or this:
http://aquaticeco.resultspage.com/se...s=custom&w=pf4
You may find an inexpensive batting in a fabric shop for one-time use. Astroturf and cheap indoor-outdoor carpet works too. Most of this stuff has to be weighted down to keep it from floating or moving about. Don't put the mat in too soon either or it will fill up with muck before spawning time. Even if you use mat, still add some hyacinths because it seems to stimulate spawning and will make it less likely that they blow the eggs out through the sides of the cage. After spawning, the adults are moved back to where they came from and the cage with the eggs attached is moved to a fry pond.

In one of your threads way back when there was a description of the process of developing a zooplankton bloom in the pond. You start with a drained pond and add lawn fertilizer and chicken feed (crumbles, not scratch) as it is being filled. Depending on the temperature and local conditions, there will be plenty of little live things for the fry to eat in one to two weeks. In three to four weeks the plankton will not be much good any more and the predators will have moved in so you have to start the process all over. The obvious problem is that you need to be able to predict when the fish will spawn to make this work.

-steve

[dick benbow]

thanks steve good input

[koifishgirl]

thanks Steve,

I guess I will have to go with water temp, full moon and a good ripe female and again thanks for the links and info. I learned how to make spawning ropes last year but I hand not luck with them. My koi in my garden pond went for the water lillie. So that is why I ask about them.

[dizzyfish]

Just in case you haven't seen it, here is a link to a short article on spawning. http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/spawn.html I would take Steve's sugestions on getting the food supply ready for the fry. I tried the Liquidfry and live brine shrimp route myself last year with limited success. Per the article, using the willow branches to receive the eggs seems like a good suggestion. My koi spawn very easily in May if I keep them cold all winter and then move them into fresh water like the article suggests. To me getting the fish I want to spawn together, when I want them to, has been easy. Raising a bunch of them without stunting is more of a challenge IME. Good luck.
Mitch

[koifishgirl]

Yes the guys did teach me how to get my ponds ready for food supply for my koi last year and I found out the ponds that worked the best and just how to get them ready. I also learned how long to wait before I pulled the ponds so as not to kill my fry, the first time I pulled they were to young and I killed some. That was a learning experience that I need to know a little about raiseing the fry and pulling the pond. The spawn that I had came from a mass spawn and in one of my mud pond so the fry were not any good, so I did not learn much at all about culling fry. I did good with getting the junk fry growing and got to get rid of them this spring in order to have room for a good spawn. I think Im going to dig a hole and bury them. Gotta do what I gotta do as I really dont want them in anyone's ponds as they are just junk.
Now I want to be able to just get the fry I need for this next spring as I have a company that wants some and I need to be able to give them good strong koi with good color and patterns. So this is the next mill stone for me and I need all the help I can get if Im going to pull this off. I have raised all types of tropical in aquairums and that was hard to learn and lost a lot of my eggs due to not knowing what I was doing before I was able to learn what I needed to keep them alive. I cant afford to make a mistake with this spawn this spring so that is why I need these experienced guys on this forum to help me out. It would be a major set back for me that wil take me into another two years to get koi going to sell. I dont want to wait that long and I dont think this company will wait for me, they want koi and if I cant produce them then they will look elsewhere.

This is a dream for me that I want to make happen