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Originally Posted by KoiCop  Jr's take on the issue might be of interest to some (since he can't be here to speak for himself). Don Evolutionary and genetic nomenclature Posted by James P on 11/12/2006, 4:34 pm User logged in as: JR
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Evolutionary and Genetic Nomenclature
One of the MOST confusing parts of understanding koi ancestry is trying to understand the ‘lumping and splitting’ of isolated gene pools.
SPECIES- Common carp as a God man species has at least five subspecies. These subspecies can freely interbred ( one definition of a single species) but due to isolation and geographic distances, they have evolved to show physiological differences that qualifies them to be viewed as subspecies by ichthyologists/zoologists. There is basically, a prototype common species from the Caspian/black sea region, then split into one western and two Eastern sub-species and one sub Asian species. And there are natural morphs of some of these species. And from all these sub-species an morphs the many many races of ‘carp’ flow! In food carp these races ( defined as isolate pools of common carp species) are further split into ‘strains’ ( a concentrated gene pool within the race). Tropical fish breeders will instantly recognize the term ‘strain’ but nishikigoi hobbyists will not as they tend to use the term ‘bloodline’ instead of strain. So where do ‘nishikigoi’ fit in?
RACE- Nishikigoi are an isolated gene pool or race of carp from several subspecies of common carp. They are not of the same race as common carp , as common carp have a specific phenotype and genotype as well as physiological differences cause by wild genetic composition and also by environmental adaptation leading to a natural selection. And nishikigoi have been isolated too long to be considered of the same race as either of the two main subspecies they arose from and are directly related to. VARIETY- Nishikigoi varieties however are unique as some are true varieties and others are really hybrid crosses of varieties within this unique race. It can all get quite confusing!! But as a general operating term, Variety or type is best way to describe the many looks of nishikigoi- a group of animals that share a unique color , pattern, skin/scale or other physical trait. A variety attempts to define a shared physical trait and in no way suggests physiological or biological differences from ‘others’- it is a purely descriptive category. That is also why the definition of ‘breed’ - an isolated pool that breeds true, is not quite right either. Especially when put to the test that defines mammal breeds- isolated and breeding true for generations! Some varieties of nishikigoi can ‘almost bred true’ like yamabuki, asagi or chagoi for instance. But other varieties are actually hybrids of two varieties and can’t bred true - in the least!
If we take asgai for instance, it is the result of several sub-species of common carp, a mutation and then a variety. As an established strain however it was crossed back to other strains or varieties to make yet a new variety!
On another level, the most recent efforts in Nishikigoi improvement have kohaku , as a variety , crossed back into other different varieties so that the ‘hybrid’ benefits from the kohaku attributes. Kujaku, ochiba, sanke, goromo , to name a few beneficiaries of this technique. As you think about this, you will likely reject the idea of bred and accept that at best, nishikigoi come in varieties. After all, it is not common for a cocker spaniel to turn out an occasional Saint Bernard puppy! Or throw off an occasional ‘wolf-looking’ pup!
STRAIN OR BLOODLINE- As you study these things, I think you will come to agree with me, that ‘bloodline’ is too strong a word to describe strains of any one variety. The ‘blood’ is constantly being changed by additions to the strain to be a truly a bloodline as we see in mammals ( inbreeding for generations in some cases). Only the fact that traits DO indeed exist within a strain can be even begin to entertain the idea of ‘bloodline’.
Think of variety as ‘what is different’ between koi of the same ancestry and race. But think of strain as ‘what is the same’ within a variety based on inbreeding of a concentrated or isolated gene pool sharing similar traits.
None of this should be confused with the term Show Varieties ( really show classification) This is a collection of varieties under a SUPER heading of LIKE VARIETY that make this group unique or different from other varieties as a SUPER group.
Source: NI (koimag.com BB) http://members4.boardhost.com/koimag...163352877.html
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Very intresting.
From what I "could" understand, which is'nt much. These are the questions that pop into my lil'head.
1. Since there are classes in koi, are these potentially becoming seperate subspecies that can still interbreed?
2. Because the desire for refining all of the classes is in a way purify the variety, is this creating a subspecies in a subspecie "koi"?? In otherwords, since they are concentrating a gene pool per variety is it sifting out all of the bad genes that are unwanted. Could all this breeding potentially backfire and cause massive mutations in the already overbred koi in the near to far future?
Just what I am curious about.
12-13-2006
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