For Mike Pheffer,...

[l113892]

Jim Reilly was probably the first person I heard break breeders down into two categories- the innovator and the immitator. The innovator sounds a whole lot more glamorous but I have to believe that innovators can go broke faster than immitators. I also see that the immitators serve a very important role and make up 95% plus of the koi breeders that exist today.

Brady- sounds like you see yourself as an innovator. I see there would be no baseline for a innovator as the koi you picture does not exist yet. Are you attempting to be a innovator on all Gosanke varieties? I could also see where koi produced by an innovator could struggle in koi shows- a koi judge could be looking at a "new" trait in a koi that has not been seen before.

I think in Mat McCann's case, he is an immitator that is learning from a innovator(Mr. Sakai). Again, a very interesting subject to me.

Happy Holidays to all-

[PapaBear]

Brady would be an innovator across the board in my book . I have friends who own some of his Nissai/Sansai Showa. They have a different look to them... Old school with a twist, but I won't pretend to know what he is doing to build the new "bradygoi" showa lines. Perhaps he will enlighten us
It is nice to hear him talk about his Kohaku Oyagoi. He and Richard Rombold are taking similar paths in developing their own parent stock and the results of their efforts are similarly impressive. That bodes well for the future of domestic breeders who will take the risk and follow suit.
BTW, I have to join the Kujaku Chorus. That is one FINE looking specimen

[dizzyfish]

Here is an example of a Japanese breeder that thinks outside the box.
http://www.japan-nishikigoi.org/kosh...5B07C7F9DCE242

[l113892]

I would point out that it is just as important to have immitators. And that a fish from an immitator can be equally impressive if not far more impressive than one from an innovator. But the successful innovator will win out in the long run. As an example, an innovator had the vision to introduce magoi blood. Now, the GC of the AJS must be over 90 cm to win. So, unless the immitators change brood stock to include ones with the magoi blood, they can no longer compete for GC at the AJS.

[MikeM]

The label of "immitator" is an unfortunate choice. It can have something of a negative connotation. We tend to prefer "originals" to "copies". With koi, all are unique. Nobody is going to produce a copy of the Kato Showa... wish they could. At the same time, even the "innovator" is using the genes of the innovators who came before.

I know what JR meant, but I think he was being purposefully simplistic to make his point. I prefer to think of that one style is focused on refining what came before; and the other is focused on re-arranging what came before.