KHV Testing Photos

[schildkoi]

Quote: Hi Steve, Yes, the information my wife just got from attending the UGA seminar is what I said. For serology you MUST heat the koi, for two weeks prior to taking blood to a temperature of 74 degrees. If you do not do this your testing will not be as accurate. This does not mean that testing won't work if you do not heat, it just means it is the most accurate way of testing because heating the Koi increases the antibody. This is direct from the people that have pioneered this kind of testing so I don't know what the resisance is all about. I am not making this up. I am posting this information because there seems to be a lot of confusion out there. Am I not correct in assuming that any information put forth by the people who are at the source of the study would know what they are talking about?This has nothing to do with the PCR test.

Russel, you do realize that the terst is not looking for a "count" per se, but simply the presence of the tithers. They are either there or not, within the blood. Unlike PCR testing that only can find the virus itself when the virus is shedding which is heat dependent. Once a Koi has been exposed to KHV, anitbodies are produced. The count actually goes down over time as I understand it for carriers, again, not temperature dependent. As I stated intitially, I will be talking with Dr. Porter over the weekend and will get a clarification should my understanding be incorrect.

steve

[koicluboftheair]

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi Unlike PCR testing that only can find the virus itself when the virus is shedding which is heat dependent. Once a Koi has been exposed to KHV, anitbodies are produced. The count actually goes down over time as I understand it for carriers, again, not temperature dependent.

That is sounding increasingly farther off the mark for me Steve. PCR is recommended with a full necropsy examining internal organs not merely shedding virus. Isn't that correct? And everything I’ve seen points strongly to a temperature dependent relationship of KHV outbreaks and mortality between 64F-81F with virtually no mortality below 64F and none reported above 86F (Goodwin 2003). You may be leaning to Porter as an authority in your area of Memphis, but Vicki I thought was on the cutting edge of this issue?

[Campcheryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by koicluboftheair That is sounding increasingly farther off the mark for me Steve. PCR is recommended with a full necropsy examining internal organs not merely shedding virus. Isn't that correct? And everything I’ve seen points strongly to a temperature dependent relationship of KHV outbreaks and mortality between 64F-81F with virtually no mortality below 64F and none reported above 86F (Goodwin 2003). You may be leaning to Porter as an authority in your area of Memphis, but Vicki I thought was on the cutting edge of this issue?

I myself have great respect for Vicki. Dr. Porter is no slough for he is a doctor of internal medicine and this is his specialty. If I am right Vicki is not a doctor or a vet. I know for a fact that Dr. Porter has put many personal dollars into research for this serology testing and has worked with both the University of California at Davis and UGA at Athens. So yes Dr. Porter is on the cutting edge. All his research at least has substance and facts. I do not think that any test is 100% though, no matter heat cycled or not. Some fish will never shed the virus...ever, but will always be a carrier. I too have a list of questions for Dr. Porter who has first hand experience with dealing with KHV fish.

[schildkoi]

Quote: That is sounding increasingly farther off the mark for me Steve. PCR is recommended with a full necropsy examining internal organs not merely shedding virus. Isn't that correct?

Let me try and put this to you politely. No, you are incorrect, yes the Koi is dead, but it has to be in a state of shedding the virus for a positive test to be found.

Like the others, Your input is not appreciated. I know Vickie Vaughn very well. What has been said has been by second hand from the course to Russel's wife and to the board. Dr. Porter is a Dr. of internal medicine, MD. He deals with virus' on a daily basis and I beleive fully competent to discuss such and the characteristics of such.

You seems to once again have twisted things around and perhaps are unable to comprehend what has been stated previously on this thread. Yeds, I learn from Dr. Porter and from Ms Vaughan. I will not justify your attempts at attempting to bait me into prioratizing who is better and only say that you have once again taken things out of context and really are not a valued contributor to this subject.

Steve

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi Let me try and put this to you politely. No, you are incorrect, yes the Koi is dead, but it has to be in a state of shedding the virus for a positive test to be found. Like the others, Your input is not appreciated. I know Vickie Vaughn very well. What has been said has been by second hand from the course to Russel's wife and to the board. Dr. Porter is a Dr. of internal medicine, MD. He deals with virus' on a daily basis and I beleive fully competent to discuss such and the characteristics of such. You seems to once again have twisted things around and perhaps are unable to comprehend what has been stated previously on this thread. Yeds, I learn from Dr. Porter and from Ms Vaughan. I will not justify your attempts at attempting to bait me into prioratizing who is better and only say that you have once again taken things out of context and really are not a valued contributor to this subject. Steve

That is so typical of him to try to twist things and make you, and Russ & Keri, look like you are all wrong. I think we are in need of some Prazi and Formalin.

[mndakota]

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi Let me try and put this to you politely. No, you are incorrect, yes the Koi is dead, but it has to be in a state of shedding the virus for a positive test to be found. Like the others, Your input is not appreciated. I know Vickie Vaughn very well. What has been said has been by second hand from the course to Russel's wife and to the board. Dr. Porter is a Dr. of internal medicine, MD. He deals with virus' on a daily basis and I beleive fully competent to discuss such and the characteristics of such. You seems to once again have twisted things around and perhaps are unable to comprehend what has been stated previously on this thread. Yeds, I learn from Dr. Porter and from Ms Vaughan. I will not justify your attempts at attempting to bait me into prioratizing who is better and only say that you have once again taken things out of context and really are not a valued contributor to this subject. Steve

Steve,
I agree with you on this(can't believe I'm saying it). Dr. Porter knows this subject completely. I was fortunate enough to travel with him and his wife in Japan last October. Our koi were all V.N. tested. Today, I also did serology on a number of new members of my herd. Thanks to the Porters it wasn't that difficult. No, I don't believe in holding my new koi in the "trip zone" temperatures. I have no desire to see one start shedding and have to euthanise the entire population. I know we can catch the carriers in 60*F and they aren't likely to be shedding. The antibodies will be there if they've been exposed.

Karl

[koicluboftheair]

My apologies for raising your ire Steve. It wasn't intended as such, but a question regarding your statements in relation to those on the mainpage of Dr. Porter's website. There seemed to be some incongruity expressed that I was seeking a clarification of not only for myself, but the many others who read exchanges and undocumented opinions on the internet. I'm sure Dr. Porter is very competent as is Microbiologist Burnley and did not intend to express otherwise.

Regards,

[schildkoi]

We only disagree on 1 subject I thought? You stated something that really needed to be stated. The advantage to serology testing is in fact detecting the antibodies and thus exposure PRIOR to the time when the Koi may shed the virus...ie, the optimum temperature range.

Steve

[mndakota]

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi We only disagree on 1 subject I thought? You stated something that really needed to be stated. The advantage to serology testing is in fact detecting the antibodies and thus exposure PRIOR to the time when the Koi may shed the virus...ie, the optimum temperature range. Steve

Yes. We do disagree on one subject. But this one is far more important. And I am totally amazed how little thought has been put into the heat cycling issue considering that there is a choice. The choice is so clear.

We drew blood today from koi not yet subjected to mid seventies. If one or more of them has been exposed it will show up. I hope none are positive, but I'm not willing to risk my herd by warming the newbies up and if nothing happens assume everything is Ok. OTOh, I'm not willing to warm up my newbies only to have one begin shedding and have to euthanise the whole group.OOOPS! I already said that didn't I. These things will need to be said again and again until the message gets out. There is a choice.

Karl

[mndakota]

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi the optimum temperature range. Steve

I call it the "trip zone". And I don't want to be on that train, 'cause there will be no way to stop it.

Karl