Which male Asagi?

[dizzyfish]

I'm hoping Dick sees this. Which male Asagi would likely be the best to keep for breeding purposes? Both have filled out since the first picture. The order is switched in the second picture. The one on the right is on the bottom in the last picture. Both are from Uonuma.

[Brutuscz]

I would definitely go with the one on the left. But...see what the asagi experts have to say.

[koiczar]

I believe the one on the bottom in the third picture has much better genetics that I would want to infuse into my stock. Having said that, it would not surprise me that both of these fish came from the same parents - LOL I just like the way this one developed. There's a clear clean white area along the lateral area which, if I'm not mistaken, makes this a Narumi Asagi - is that right Dick? This is what Hosokai is famous for - I would also bet my bottom dollar that these are Hosokai fish grown out by Uonuma. Many breeders buy his Asagi to be grown out by them.

Good Luck with your breeding program. Keep us all informed as to how things go.

Mike

[dick benbow]

looks like Mike is gonna be our resident asagi expert.....I believe his quesses about the koi are probably correct as to who bred and how the breeder that sold them aquired them....

at any rate we want the koi with the lighter whiter look, which would be the one on the right in the first photo and the one on the bottom in the third. never be in a hurry to give up on a koi. i would keep the other one another year just to see how it does.

[MikeM]

Dick: My first reaction was the lighter male on the right-hand side of the first photo, just because I know we want to avoid the genes that turn most Asagi fry too dark to be attractive. But then I got doubts because the color started looking more flat and grayish than blue. I've seen some Asagi that are too dull in their colors. Do you have any tips for distinguishing between a light-colored Asagi that will develop and a dull one that will be washed-out at best?

[dizzyfish]

Thanks for the replies. It is interesting that they are re-packaging. (Seems a little misleading.) I just snapped this picture. I can hardly tell the two apart except for the fact that one lost a scale on its head. I guess the conditions in the pond (and genetics) are making them more alike in color. I'm pretty sure the one on the bottom is the one on the right in the first photo. It was actually supposed to be a year older and an inch shorter when I bought them last year. I might keep them both for a little longer, but I need to reduce the load in the pond pretty soon.
Mitch

[dick benbow]

still think you need to stick with the top one in the latest photo.....

There are different color varieties of asagi Mike and if possible try and select from Narumi as they seem to favor the aqua marine blue we all like. So that''s the genetics of it....then of course the water can play a part....we want to keep the kh/gh as minimal as possible without endangering the ph as it relates to the bio load.

the koi everyone sees on my posting was the lightest blue I had ever seen, and it has developed and stayed that way as an adult. So as with most koi color varieties even within the narumi not all individuals are created equal.

What i always suggest doing while selecting koi is to put all of the one color variety in a blue tub capable of holding them all and begin comparing side by side. Then thru a process of elimination you begin weeding them out. I think where we all get in trouble is we look at the pictures of champions and then try to find it in a small koi. the longer it takes for a koi to develop the longer it seems to stay where we want it to. Kinda like the ugly duckling story. for those who don't have any input on selection I really urge you to invest in
koi bito # 8 back issue.

[Brutuscz]

Quote: Originally Posted by dick benbow looks like Mike is gonna be our resident asagi expert.....I believe his quesses about the koi are probably correct as to who bred and how the breeder that sold them aquired them.... at any rate we want the koi with the lighter whiter look, which would be the one on the right in the first photo and the one on the bottom in the third. never be in a hurry to give up on a koi. i would keep the other one another year just to see how it does.

My question is...what about bone structure? I chose the darker one on the left because of the superior conformation. When choosing an asagi to breed, how much does this come into play?
One other question...If the female he was going to use is very light...would you still choose the lighter male koi?

[dick benbow]

Asagi's have a different bone structure then many of the other color varieties.
They tend to be longer and thinner than the standard kohaku/sanke/showa types we have come to hold as body standard. these koi pictured are relatively young
and have not fully developed. My magoi blooded female asagi is more typical
of the gosanke style while my males are closer to the longer less blocky asagi type build. I hope in not too many more years to start a breeding program with them. When i do establish my program it will be for light colored males and females both. The male I will use is the one that I have pictured with my postings....I have never found a nicer aqua marine blue before...and since daddy's genes are important here in coloring, I'm really counting on this koi
to make the difference. my back up male is one from Hosokai bloodline and is very much colored like the female.

[dizzyfish]

Dick I will follow your suggestion on the male, especially since it is the same size as the other at one year younger. Here is the 24" female I plan on using the male with. I spawned them last year and got a lot of light ones, but really didn't know how to cull them. It seems like the real light ones don't have hardly any red. Most of them grew too slow since I didn't have enough natural food in the growout ponds. Hopefully I have learned something from the great discussions here on bito. I think I'll do better next time. I really do like Asagi.
Mitch