The Problem with Jumanji the Ochiba

[Sangreaal]

Remember some weeks ago when I asked what this round white spot was on Jumanji's gill plate? It was rough like sandpaper back then, but since the water has gotten colder, the spot has gotten more gelatinous and new snotlike things are presenting themselves--on his dorsal fin, on the bottom of his tail tube, and there are more very faintly starting to come in along the ventral line and around the base of his pectorals.

I haven't got a microscope, so don't ask. This stuff is not fluffy like fungus, it's kinda jellified but not slimey, and it does not simply rub off. Gut tells me this is something bacterial, but I can't find much reference stuff that matches this.

Here are a few decent pics I took today after I Gollum'd Jumanji out of the pond by hand and brought him in to the bowl for examination and temperature adjustment before putting him in the QT:




(Note the scrape marks on his cheek just behind his eye--obviously been trying to rub at the spot so it's irritating. Also note the lifting of the back of said spot--I did this with my fingernail over a month ago and it's been flapping in the currents ever since. Seems like I should be able to lever this whole thing off, but am hesitant to try it for fear of leaving a raw open sore if what I'm peeling off is part of his skin)








Notice the bluish pall over the whole fish, as well as light spots developing along his sides and along the edges of his fins. This is not normal for him. It looks like his cheek and dorsal fin before the jellified stuff emerged, very slow and subtle.

Any idea what this is, what I should treat him with and how?

The Ju is 14" long.
The QT is salted to .3, 70 degrees F temp, PH 7.5, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, 0 ammonia, and murked with bentonite.

Marie

[Russell Peters]

Looks like carp pox.

[Sangreaal]

No way, Jose.

[Russell Peters]

Then it must be...............Lymphocystis. It looks a lot like carp pox, BUT the cells can become huge (megaloblastic) in size. There is no cure, but it tends to disappear after a season or two. They are viral growths and can be scraped off, but it is infectious to other fish if the viral particals that are scraped off get into the pond. You also open up your Koi to infection by scraping them off.

You are better off leaving it alone unless it becomes a real threat to the Koi.

Jose.

[Sangreaal]

Now I have a leper in the colony.

And I thought I was going to make it through winter unscathed...

M

[REC]

Before Jose tells us what this really is... we forgot to ask what the water temps are as "carp pox" only appears during certain water temp conditions.

My gut feel is that this is carp pox or one of those loosely defined virus that we classify as carp pox.. but since I ain't Jose, I could be wrong.

REC

[Sangreaal]

Water temp for the last month has been 40-46 degrees.
The spot on Jumanji's cheek has been there since late summer when the water was 75-80 degrees.
The glob on the dorsal started as a clearing of the fin web a few weeks ago, which progressively turned white and globular. Didn't notice the one under the tail tube until today.
The overall cast of blue over the entire fish is new, developed over the last few weeks.
The slime coat is evident, but seems a bit thin.
The only raised jellified areas on the koi is on the gill plate, the dorsal fin and the bottom of the tail tube nearest the tail. There are numerous pale areas of pigment down the sides of the fish that do not seem normal to me. They cannot be felt when palpated like the ones in question.

Anything else?

I know...I need a microscope too.....

M

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by REC Before Jose tells us what this really is... we forgot to ask what the water temps are as "carp pox" only appears during certain water temp conditions. My gut feel is that this is carp pox or one of those loosely defined virus that we classify as carp pox.. but since I ain't Jose, I could be wrong. REC

Pond temp in the low 40's, REC.

I've been doing a lot of researching today and came across this page on Koivet re: Saprolegnia vs. Epistylus (fungus infection vs protozoan infection)

http://koivet.com/html/articles/arti...&name=Diseases

Could this be either of those?

I know I know....microscope. *sigh*

Marie

[Richard Rombold]

I have had limited exposure to pox on koi but have seen numerous cases of pox on mature Goldfish and this in my opinion is not pox. The locations of the two growths are not random viral outbreaks, but predictable areas for disease. Problems with the opercular plates generally result from a fish's response to irritation. Damage to the tip of the dorsal fin is also a common problem area. Excessively high or low pH, handling or disease can cause erosion of the epithelial layer here. Another significant observation is the grayish film developing on the body. Taken together we can make an educated guess. First, not pox. Second, not saprolegina. Good try, but not our guy. This growth is not tissue. I thought keloid tissue, but it doesn't add up. It's not bacterial. It's colonial. It's on the skin. I'd venture epistylis.

You are on the right track to raise the water temperature and salt the QT tank. Take the water temp up to 80 F and bring the salt up to .6%. Treat with either a MG or acriflavin bath.

The bigger question is why are you having this problem? Protozoan outbreaks are a common result of poor pond hygiene. Is your system accumulating an excessive amount of organic material?

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by REC Before Jose tells us what this really is... we forgot to ask what the water temps are as "carp pox" only appears during certain water temp conditions. My gut feel is that this is carp pox or one of those loosely defined virus that we classify as carp pox.. but since I ain't Jose, I could be wrong. REC

Lymphosystis is NOT carp pox and is a virus. It can appear just about anytime but seems to flourish in colder temps.

Jose