Help with medical treatment-Doitsu sanke.

[Brutuscz]

Really? I figured the creme would not stay on as well under water. I'll give it a try. I salted the main pond and quarantine tank today. So, the treatment has begun. Hope it works!!!

[KoiCop]

If I were you, I'd pop over to KV and see what REC (or dOHD) has to say 'cause the ragged edges on the pecs bothers me.

[Brutuscz]

I just emailed REC to see what his opinion is on the subject. I salted to .02%. I am leaving for vacation tommorow..so, I don't want to do anything radical and then leave. The koi is not in any distress, and it's only that one fish. I appreciate the help everyone..thanks again.

[REC]

B.

Looks like we have a number of things going on... first, the water temps in NE and even the mid-Atlantic are such that the parasites are still active yet the fish has a limited ability to fight them off... same thing with the bacteria. Whether you beleive in the theory of "Aeromonas Alley" or not, the science proves that there is a water temp range, usually 45-60 deg F where the fish are more susceptible to problems as the bad guys are in better shape than the fish's ability to fight them off. Just wanted to make that point because this can be a major factor in all of our ponds right now.

The fin erosion is quite telling and appears to be caused by parasites. Have you scraped and scoped this guy?? This would help a lot. Aside from physical injury, this type of damage is only caused by parasites gnawing away at the fin tissue.

Also, a scope study of the white stringy stuff would tell us a lot as well. From that we could include or exclude both sap or other fungus and epistylus, a parasite. Both exhibit the white stringy look under these conditions.

Assuming this is sap, 60 deg F is the low end for safety with formalin although you can use MG down to 45 deg F with safety. If this fungal, MG is best choice. As you probably are aware, sap is not a topical fungus since it bores into the tissue looking for nutrients in the blood, etc. Sap kills by hemodilution. So, using a topical anti-fungal might not be effective enough and here is where MG really does a great job as it kills the fungal growth down through the tissue.

If this is epistylus, a salt bath at .6% for 30 minutes should do the trick nicely. In fact, given the situation, I would do this first (after the scrape and scope). Salt has no effect on fungus but knocks down epi really fast.

My theory on why just this one fish is affected is that given the marginal water temps and even the flucuations in temps, this one fish is not handling this as well as the others. Very common but typically more so in the spring and not January in the NE.

So, that is where I would start. By being methodical in our approach, we can eliminate over medicating our fish.

REC

[PapaBear]

Glad you popped in as I have a question for you.
Is a PP treatment of any benefit for problems like this and what are the temperature constraints on its use???

[REC]

PB..

Is PP a treatment option?? Hmmm.. depends on what we are dealing with. For sap, no, PP is not a good option as it will only affect the fungus on the surface and not kill the "roots." For epistylus, PP is an option but really it is overkill as salt will handle it nicely and is much safer.

For parasites (except anchor worm and lernea), PP is always a good choice assuming you are comfortable using it. I would not tackle flukes with PP as the dose rates and exposure times are too dangerous. Prazi is always a good bet.

PP can be used effectively and safely down to 45 deg F or so.

But as I mentioned, before using anything (especially PP), know what you are after before reaching for the chems.

REC