Update on VHS discussion

[koicluboftheair]

Quote: Originally Posted by dOHd These are statements he made. Aphis is more interested in naturally occurring infections instead of induced infections in a lab...To quote him “you can infect a fruit fly with the KHV virus in a lab setting if the dosage is high enough, so laboratory induced infection data is somewhat unreliable in the real world” And you also have to deal with a large number of false positives. While it “could always happen, carp are not on the list and have a fairly low probability to end up on that list.” .

I'm not very familar with the specific point here Daniel? When the good doctor said "you can infect a fruit fly with KHV virus in a lab setting if the dosage is high enough, so laboratory induced infection data is somewhat unreliable in the real world" did the same hold true in his opinion to VHS?
That would suggest that carp and koi could be infected in the lab with pathogens, but the same pathogens have a refractory response in carp in nature and koi in a breeder/hobbyist pond setting? I really need more clarification on the point you are making here with quotes from Andy on KHV. I'm very interested in this subject and appreciate your research.

[dOHd]

Over the past two days, I have had the great pleasure of talking both by Email and phone with several more PhD’s in the field of aquaculture, especially in the field of virology.

One thing comes to mind. First off, ours is a hobby that financially is nothing more than a pimple on the backside of this elephant called the fish business. When you compare our hobby with the sales of hundreds of tons per week, it really does not rate.

Now, it seems that john is forever going to be hung by his (mis)deduction on the testing done in 1988. John, son, do you realize that if we were talking a car here, in one year it would be classified as an antique??????? WE are talking old school crap that you are quoting, and wanting someone to clarify for you. You need to fast forward to the technology of today and the relevant studies that apply to the discussion.

No one I have talked to is aware of any testing done on the genome 4B (which is the official designation of the new strain) being done carp to see if they were refractory. All this testing takes time and a lot of money, for a minority species the money is just not there. And for what, to disprove a negative? We have covered that one at length.

From each and every one that I spoke with, each one a Doctor John, not some wannabe radio talk show host, from the University of ARK, Wisc, Mich, Cornell, the USDA, and APHIS, I came away with impression put forth by one verbally. You are doing a great disservice by promoting incorrect information, especially considering your position in the hobby. A disservice that spreads misinformation, half truths, and outright lies to the people in the hobby. And when confronted by the truth and fact, updated research, statements by leading authorities in the field, you choose to ignore them and continue with your theories and challenges. And I for one do not have the time. They are willing to teach, but only to those that want to learn, something you don’t seem to want to do.

According to Dr Bowser, while most evidence suggests that this is a fairly new virus, there is contrary evidence that suggests that it has been around since before 2003. It seems like most good scientists, they keep viable specimens of fish kills around so in the future they can do DNA testing to see what shows up. And low and behold, some of this testing is showing up unmistakable evidence that major fish kills of the past have been caused by the VHS genome 4B, the one you are yelling wolf about. The proof is there, unmistakable DNA fragments to prove that is what caused the problem. And there are tests being done right now on other fish kills of the past few years to see if they were related in any way. So as you read this, testing is underway to discover much more information as to how long and where this could have come from.

And any testing of carp to prove they are refractory will just have to wait until someone has the time and the funding to play with.

Oh and as for the fruit fly/KHV example, if you only knew how stupid your assumptions were, you would let it go. Once again, creating something in a lab and real world realities are worlds apart. He was being sarcastic, and you were to slow to even pick it up. Like it would be possible. Sure, inject the Koi with 55 gallons of the virus, that should do it. Just so John can prove his point.

Until then you keep on touting your antiqued message based on outdated information, and your defective deductions. I would rather deal with science and the truth of fact.

So, unless you can find a different tune, I am done posting on the subject.

[koicluboftheair]

Oh goody gum drops I've been corrected and duly scorned by a senior and much more intelligent, kind and deliberate gentleman than myself again. Thank you for finding that VHS genome IV has not been studied for carp refractorability. I guess when I asked if it had that was a stupid question on my part. Like you have been telling me all along it is refractory based on a bulletin I've done a FOIA request on. I just keep trying to verify the scientific specificity of that old data that others have been quoting to me. What a fool I am. Here I've been arguing that carp might not be refractory to Genome IV, but rather Genome I, II or III and you just proved it with a bunch of doctors and really brainy folks. I hope one of them wasn't Doc Johnson as some folks don't like him anymore. Oh, well whatever the outcome I'm sure you are on top of things and not any sort of evil wannabee like me, boo, hoo,...maybe one day I can do radio. Oh wait I do! Dang I'm so confused. And I thought you had already stopped posting on this subject claiming you can't argue with a fool, etc, etc., in any case thank you for putting me in my place in the back of the bus, noting how stupid I am, how much better a researcher you are than me, etc. You da man dawg! My hero!