Who has the most GC trophies?

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Mike, the flag Grant is referring to is SoCal's ZNA chapter flag that each chapter is given when they join ZNA. You all should have your own by now- they have become quite modest compared to what they used to be. JR

Not the chapter flag, the GC Flag they used to give out to the winner and the winner would present it to the following years winner.

[karipeters]

for the information.

1969...does it have to do with Viet Nam?

[dizzyfish]

JR quote
"1st All Japan COMBINED show- was in 1968 ( fall of 1968). So there was NO 1969 show or it would have to have been a few months after the first show! The second show was January of 1970 ( 14 months after the first show). The winner of that 2nd 1970 show was the showa which won 'best of all' (owned by Susumu, Saku).
I know that Glenn Takeshita wrote in many English TFH publications that a doitsu sanke was the winner of the first show, but in only one candid shot does that fish even show up in the official publication for the fish show that year? The number one photo, page one, is the kohaku I showed you'all."

[RayJordan]

Hi JR,
Sorry but I can't remember where I found that particular photo. Lots of the photos I found came from old english version rinkos and some from english Nicherins. INterviews with breeders and dealers and even hobbyist where they would show photos of their ajs winners and also koi they were impressed by when starting the hobby years ago.

Sometimes I would find several different articles with different photos of the same koi and I would choose the one that was the better photo. Other times I would find photos of different koi and not know which was the correct koi.

[dizzyfish]

Did you know that Doitsu Sanke was only 50cm, when it won the show?
Mitch

[JasPR]

Right! The first Shinkokai combined All Japan show was really almost a year later than the ZNA All Japan show ( March of 68 I believe?). And there would be no way to pull off another by January as you so well identified! So Jan 1970 was the second show- a year and a few months after the first.

Thanks Ray, I see the fish you posted in the official first photo album book. BUT the fish that was published in all the TFH American publications show a DIFFERENT sanke as winner!! This is the picture most hobbyists are familiar with written by Glenn Y. Takeshita. So who is right?
I posted in Japanese Konji, the title of the fish you posted that appears next to it in the official photo record. Lets get someone who reads konji to translate it for us.
Long ago I figured out:
1) the reason there was no 1969 combined show
2) the evolution of ZNA and the 'two' Amateur All Japan shows as a result
3) the controversy with Mits and Kuroki

and that accounts for 'several' 1st GCs

BUT this issue of the sanke at the 1968 Shinkokai still eludes me!
Maybe this time we can solve the riddle?

Here is Glenn Takeshita's picture ( head shot found also in the anniversary book) of the 1st All Japan champion which he dates as 'late 1968 in Tokyo'
Best, Jim

[JasPR]

add here is the full body shot taken by author Glenn--

[JasPR]

and here is the sanke you posted from another angle as found in the official record book. You have to admit, from the pictures ONLY, the author Glenn's fish looks more like a GC than the other. But pictures can fool so we need more information. Maybe our host here can help out with the request I made asking for help with Konji? J North, can you raise him?

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR and here is the sanke you posted from another angle as found in the official record book. You have to admit, from the pictures ONLY, the author Glenn's fish looks more like a GC than the other. But pictures can fool so we need more information. Maybe our host here can help out with the request I made asking for help with Konji? J North, can you raise him?

Let me see what I can do.

[JasPR]

Thanks Jim. And thanks Brian for translating.

So the official text shows that Ray posted a fish that was indeed a 'champion'. But it doesn't say Grand Champion? And Glenn Takeshita must have done his homework to have the confidence to put the picture of 'his' sanke GC in a printed publication. On the other hand, we all know how inaccurate TFH publications are in general when it comes to koi information! So the mystery continues--- JR

The winner of the first All Japan Combined show that took place in the fall of 1968 in Tokyo was----------??????