lessons learned from cold weather

[Brutuscz]

so, what is a good KH value under the ice....and what should be done if it is found to be low?

[philbob]

GazKoi,

Sounds like a nice system for monitoring your pond. Did you make it yourself, or is it commercially available?

[Steve E]

Cold ass freaking weather! Now that my WSM (whinning, sniveling, malcontent) statement about this cold spell is out of the way, let me proceed.

I live in Northern California. Not the Northern California of the bay area which is just over the line dividing the state in half but really north. Just 90 miles south of the Oregon boarder at the very end of the Sacramento Valley. We generally have mildish winters. Temperatures in the 30's F, rain, and wind. Occasionally some snow that as a rule sticks around for a day at most. However about every 3-5 years we get a heavy snow storm with about 12" or snow on the ground for all of 5-7 days. So for us winter ponding means water temperatures in the high 30's to low 40's F.

One other little weather system pops in every 7-15 years. That is very cold (for us) temperatures in the 20's F for a week or so. This past week being the example of that type of system. Over night lows in the low 20's F. If it warms up during the day ice is not a big problem. What is critical to avoid plunging water temperatures is shutting down water falls. Since the vast majority of the water falls contain the bio-filtration system that can mean a long start-up in the spring. Most folks do not have a means to by-pass their water falls.

After watching my water temperatures drop from the mid 40's F to the low 30's F over two days when I first started ponding, I learned the value of a by-pass. I also learned that it is best not to have the bio-filtration built into the water fall. To avoid extra cooling of the pond I now stop the water fall in late November depending on overnight temperatures. I still test for ammonia, nitrite, and KH and GH. Ammonia does show, but with the low temperatures the threat is not there as REC has indicated.

To guard against breaking pipes I have wrapped all exposed pipes and this includes the 3" runs of suction piping from the new bio-chambers to the pumps.

Not the horror story of breaking pipes or freezing pumps, but rather one of much lower water temperatures than need be. But also the thought that we need to consider weather history of extremes for our area.

Steve

[Eugeneg]

[quote=REC;73210]For those of us afflicted with cold weather problems, it is easy to "forget" about water quality in our ponds... especially those ponds "under the ice."
First of all you should not be keeping koi under the ice .Koi are a four season fish but one of the seasons is not under the ice . In fact in some areas like mine I have seen ice from November to April .
I know that some koi especially low quality that have been raised in cold climates will survive , but high quality fish especially the young and large females will not or suffer damage certainly shortens their lives .
If you have ice then the water temperature could drop under 40f . Which could result in koi laying on their side . We all know that water freezes at 32f but in reality it becomes a slush that floats to the top at 36f . We do have some warming from the bottom of the pond providing it is deep enough but over a prolonged winter even that diminishes .
You can keep a hole open with a waterfall but that only chills the pond more , or some aeration but that opens up a hole which makes the surface water susceptible to wind chill factor as well as further chilling the pond with cold air . A heavy price to pay for air exchange . Ice on top of a pond can get covered with snow which blocks of light killing algae also melting and further worsening the water . It becomes difficult to see the fish alive or dead . At these cold temperatures the filtration has to be turned off the fish have to remain hungry and all filter bacteria dies . Making it a longer period of time to reestablish in the spring so in reality prolonging the winter .
The answer is cover the pond with a greenhouse or a greenhouse type structure . This can take the chill out of winter especially if you drape a swimming pool cover on every night . In extreme temperatures a heater can be used even if the temperature is kept at 48f will allow you to run the filters as well as do a little careful feeding . The fish will digest the food ok if it is a wheat germ and then soaked to a mush .The biggest problem is the filtration but if you change water at least 50% a week there will not be a problem and the incoming water is much warmer . If there is a prolonged spring it might be wise to raise the temperature to 60f and keep it there .
Unfortunately I learned this over the bodies of koi under the ice .
Regards
Eugene

[REC]

First about KH levels... personally, I like 120-150 for my KH readings and would use regular old baking soda to keep them up there (except I have PERFECT koi well water... KH 130, GH 120 out of the tap). For ponds under duress, such as a pH swing or crash where the KH levels have dropped really low and affected the pH stability, I would also check the calcium hardness levels and if low, use calcium chloride to raise them as well. If you use calcium chloride in the winter, you will also need to monitor your salt levels and make sure that you keep them well under .1%.

I suggest that you warm your pond water to room temp before testing it..gives a more accurate reading.

Eugene... not everyone has the ability to warm their ponds and in many cases, do not need to. In a properly designed pond (depth and volume), the water temps will not drop below 39 deg F.. this is a law of physics related to the maxiumum density of water with salinity lower than .1%. And water does not freeze.. water vapor does but that is a whole different subject. But, honestly.. if I lived in Toronto, I would find a way to keep my fish warmer, too.

Koi are temperate fish and while JR and I have debated this annually, they will indeed withstand temperatures down to 35 Deg F for prolonged periods of time. Is this the best thing for them?? Again, up for debate but they are equipped to withstand the rigors of winter in the wild and also in our ponds as long as we duplicate the best we can Mother Nature's practices.

Also, I keep my bead filter running all winter because this gives me a 0-day start-up as the water warms. In cold water, a certain number of the bio bacteria will die off but more will go into their version of torpor and re-emerge as the water starts to warm. Now, the trick to running a bead filter all winter is to protect it from freezing... especially the bottom sludge drain... Good point, Mr. North!!

OK, JR.. where are you?? I don't think we have debated cold fish yet this season...

REC

[mitten]

Quoted from Eugene G>>>
At these cold temperatures the filtration has to be turned off the fish have to remain hungry and all filter bacteria dies .

We're having a mild winter. My temp this morning is 11F. The pretty pond is froze solid. I don't leave any fish in it. Two ponds are covered with hoops and visqueen. The water is not frozen but will be 32F at the surface. No filtration is running in these ponds. No water is pumped. No air is pumped. One pond holds 3 fish, the other about thirty (six feet deep). Other fish are in the barn and heated. That was just a small bit of qualification, so you know where I am coming from. Mild? Ptui.

Here is something that I believe. I hesitate to call it something I've learned. I believe that all filter bacteria DOESN'T die. My belief is that there are too many unknown minor bacteria working in our filtration for us to say "All die."

I have a tank full of K1 that cleans itself over the winter. I have a settlement tank that will have a thin layer of fine sediment when I look in it in ?Maybe March?. Start up in spring is easy and smooth but that is because I go slow, treating conditions as new and allowing weeks for everything to cook again. The hell of new pond and new filters is something I remember well. No conditions are anything like that now and I attribute it to bacteria types that are making it through the winter in some resilient fashion.

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by REC Also, I keep my bead filter running all winter because this gives me a 0-day start-up as the water warms. In cold water, a certain number of the bio bacteria will die off but more will go into their version of torpor and re-emerge as the water starts to warm. Now, the trick to running a bead filter all winter is to protect it from freezing... especially the bottom sludge drain... Good point, Mr. North!!

Thanks REC....I stole that idea from this guy I know.......

[carolyn swanson]

You have GOT to move to Florida!!!

[Gallagher]

I get such a kick out of the southern states whine about cold weather. Temps in the 20s for a couple of days boo hoo. And its such an asinine statement to say the boi life dies off in winter, if that were true all northern lakes would die off during the winter and have to start a new every spring. Not sensible for Mother Nature. There's a reason the lakes in the northern regions are clear and clean, they rest during the forth season, not die! I'm not saying that recirculation ponds are anything like a natural lake, H*ll no, most are not even close. They are however ruled by nature and the less polluted they are going into winter the better. I would go so far as to wager that people who have problems with disease in winter have filthy ponds.
The water temps in my new pond started out in the mid fifties, since it wasn't filled til mid Oct, the water out of my tap was treated for chlorine but not ammonia, I wanted the bacteria to have something to feed on, half the media from my indoor system was used as seed media. and the 14,000g system was started. As the water temps dropped during the next few weeks so did the 1ppm ammonia. 5 Koi in the 10 to 15" range were added a week after startup to keep the load on the filters somewhat active. Now for Minnesota this has been a mild winter, so far, however mild for us would be frigid for the south. My water temps have been in the 30s since Nov 20th. The ponds ammonia readings have been 0, Nitrites have not dropped below .5ppm but .1 of salt has kept that potential problem in check. The five fish are alive and well under the ice.
My point is that we as humans tend to project our desired comforts to all the things we love, our Koi being one of them. Koi have been around for thousands of yrs and have adapted to meet the demands Mother Nature has placed on them, winter is one of them. The forth season is necessary and crucial to their development.
Sorry I'm off topic, give us you tragedies.
Jim

[Brutuscz]

So, I got curious and measured my water. My GH is 60 and my kh is 30. My ph is 7.0. So...do I have anything to worry about?
I do have a level of salt in the pond...need to measure it.
Should I add baking soda or do anything at all?