Confusion tracking down the photos and other data on AJS Grand Champions

[RayJordan]

JR,
I understand and appreciate your comments about trying to nail down the "correct" data and photos for the grand champions of the AJS ZNA and Shinkokai shows. No doubt some is translation issues. One example is that in some articles and book a particular koi is shown and a caption says something like " 5th All Japan show Grand Champion sanke. There are many possibilities.

#1 Not clear which All Japan show they refer (there are 3 or even 4 depending on year)
#2 Was it the grand Champion of the entire show or the Grand Champion of the Sanke's (what we would call best in class)
#3 or was it Grand Champion of a group (what we would call Adult or Mature Champion)
#4 or did they get the show # wrong
#5 or did they get the year wrong
#6 Maybe it was just incorrect info, etc. etc.

I could add many more if you add in trying to identify the names of breeder or the owner.

ps I am going to start a seperate thread for this since it has gone off the orginal topic.

[JasPR]

Morning Ray. Like you I find these things interesting and it is a 'loose end' in an otherwise tidy package of history!

I appreciate your explanations but in this case at least there is not much to get wrong?
Certainly I have the first photo album of the 1968 All Japan show
Certainly Peter knows what he is talking about
Certainly you did your research

But this Gent, Glenn Takeshita has this maruten sanke on the cover of his book 'KOI' and inside he has several pictures of the show itself and the fish again in the show vat. And he refers to the event as " the First All Japan held in late 1968". And he even has photos of that classic shot of the sky scraper trophy wall. ??
The caption on the picture of the maruten I posted reads " This Taisho Sanke was the Grand Champion of the first All Japan Koi Show held in Tokyo in 1968"

The body on the maruten 'looks' pretty good and the stuff of a major winner- especially back in 1968! And it looks to be of a decent size although the author never mentions size of this fish.
Yet 'your' sanke, and now Peter's sanke seems to have the weight of being shown in several sources as THE GC?

Very intriguing! JR

[JasPR]

Here are the pictures so we can all be on the same page.

Ray to take away some confusion- this maruten was definitely at the same show as 'your' sanke. The last picture in this series is taken from the offical record book for the 1968 show. You can see this maruten's head with the unique two sumi stripes in the beni. It is also a large fish based on it's comparison with the other 'winners'? JR

[RayJordan]

I put some requests out for a few of our koibito buddies to take pics of the large photos that are posted at the show of previous Grand champions. Taken in groups of 3-4 I believe I can piece together the time line from the photos of koi we are more confident about. Hope they remember.