momo showa nissai

[MikeM]

LOL. Good, Mick.

[Clay]

I like three colors on the face as well. I also have classic expectations of kohaku but if you look at last year's All Japan Grand Champion it didn't meet those classic expectations so as Dick tries to tell us over and over (am I have a hard time listening about this particular one but am slowly coming around) - pattern isn't everything.

That's why a larger photo with more details like age of this fish would be helpful. Judging from the simple picture, I love the fish personally.

I usually try to stay away from controversial topics, but on the young guy that is excited about the hobby. If you are a koi person, you automatically get more tolerance from me than non-koi people. I vote to cut the guy a break. It's also refreshing when people get told of informed of their mistakes in life how they respond. A sorry for the mistake is much different than someone who just becomes a belligerent jerk. Some people take more time to come around than others. Maybe this discussion will help that process of coming around become quicker than no discussion. I wish I had some of that youthful enthusiasm back in my life. I feel 90 these days.

Rick

[keokoi]

3 colors on the head thingy we always hear so much.

Here is a pic of a well known showa that has everything but 3 colors on the head.


Joe

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by keokoi 3 colors on the head thingy we always hear so much. Here is a pic of a well known showa that has everything but 3 colors on the head. Joe

Yes Joe, that showa has won many awards, Best in size, Young champ, mature champ... You don't always have to have all 3 colors, when the overall quality is there.

[koiczar]

Thank you Joe and Nancy for proving my point. I don't care if the fish has a balanced face pattern or not as much as requiring the fish be of very high quality. If you wish to take the time, you can go back to the Tokyo/Isawa bound PSKoi thread and look again at posts 28,40,68,69,70,102 and 103. These fish are all very high quality and some DO NOT have white or have very little white on the face (at least at this time). They are still mostly tosai or nisai. As they grow and their heads widen, more shiroji could show on the cheeks and Bingo, you've got what you're looking for.

The fish that's posted, if you look REAL HARD, you can see some shiroji on the left cheek area. I really hope the poster can provide a better image of the fish. Also, IT IS DEFINITELY NOT A HI SHOWA. It has two large hi plates which portray a nice balance from front to back and the sumi is complementing it very nicely. The depth of color on this fish is amazing which places it into the category of HIGH CLASS. You'd be amazed at what the breeders show you when you ask about high class koi. They don't all have these "textbook" patterns and sometimes, you may have to go back and look two or three times at photos of the fish to really appreciate what you were shown. The hobby in the US in mho is still relatively new. We aren't shown enough of what high quality really represents to understand it and appreciate the fish for what they are, not what we think they're supposed to be. It's not always about what we read a fish should look like, it's what we have seen in person that teaches us what make these fish living jewels and works of art. It's like comparing Michelangelo or Davinchi's works to Picasso or Monet. All beautiful but artistically at two ends of the spectrum!

Mike

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...enough said. Just like the rest of the Showa post on Bito...50/50

What????????????

[MikeM]

Excellent, Mike.

... We learn not to give too much weight to pattern, but pattern elicits so strong a response I don't think the lesson can ever be fully internalized. And, pattern does continue to count. In the culling process the breeders are continuously making decisions weighing pattern and quality. How high does the quality need to rise for a menkaburi to be grown to sansai? In judging the same occurs. A truly terrible pattern is going to be hard for quality to overcome. A "neutral" pattern, which is what I consider this year's Shinkokai GC to have, can carry quality a long way. A classic pattern combined with high quality is just too rare. The terrible patterned super high quality koi may be oyagoi for another generation of GCs... a great fish of high value, but not necessarily a GC itself.

And, of course, pattern may matter more in what we choose to have in our own ponds to care for over a period of decades.

[midas]

Hi,
sorry for the delay but here is the larger picture.

[Clay]

Quote: Originally Posted by midas Hi, sorry for the delay but here is the larger picture.

With no hesitation, spectacular.

I pulled this picture off of the Sakai web site as an example of the kind of fish that they produce. Obviously they thought they fish was a winner. Notice the head:

[Brutuscz]

You know clay...I like that fish. I mean as more than a friend really...it might be love